Urethane is here to stay, and it will still win tournaments, but there was an obvious performance advantage to those specific balls, and not even just the model, specific batches of that model.  I think the PBA looked to avoid the appearance of targeting with their rule, or to avoid getting specific with it, but the USBC just did it.  It's not urethane in general that people are complaining about or that led them to this, yeah there's a few players that don't like urethane, but that's called bowling everywhere, and they're not going to straight up ban a piece of a equipment that people just don't like. 

Quote from: Luke Rosdahl on March 08, 2022, 01:27:02 PM

No it's not irrelevant, the softer balls create a lot more reaction consistency, this is a big facet of the "illegal" purple hammers.  It has nothing to do with hit and everything to do with the consistency of the reaction, especially throughout transition.  Hit isn't a ball attribute, it's a matchup attribute, urethane can "out-hit" resin given the right situations.  If it was irrelevant, this wouldn't be a thing. 

Quote from: avabob on March 08, 2022, 10:44:47 AM

The ironic thing is that softness is pretty much irrelevant.  I remember when resin first came out.  They called them cheater balls.  Funny thing.  A friend of mine had an old soft Shore D.  He brought it out and threw it next to a 75+ hardness Excaliber.  The resin ball out hit the Shore D by a huge margin.  Likewise any resin ball out hits a purple hammer.  The fact that a purple hammer out hits other urethane by a little has little to do with hardness

What happens when urethane less then two years old is still winning tournaments on the pba tour and certain players still complain?

The ambiguous words here that are causing confusion are "national tournaments". Does this only mean the USBC Open Championships? Or is this to mean all USBC national tournaments?

That's why I brought up the US Open and the Masters. If it is only the USBC Open, then picture the complaining when a non-PBA member registers for the Masters (I'll use it as the example since it is coming up in 2 weeks), and according to the assumption that the banning is only for the USBC Open Championships, will be able to use a 2016/2017 Purple Hammer, while the PBA member will be subject to the rolling 2-year rule, and gets beat by the non-PBA member.

To make it worse, if the ban is only for the USBC Open Championships, will the PBA member be able to use the 2016/2017 Purple Hammers because this is a USBC tournament whose title is recognized by the PBA? That would then circumvent the rolling 2-year rule.

There is major ambiguity here that needs to be clarified.

BL.

From the release.

"Therefore, effective immediately, USBC is instituting a tournament rule at all USBC national tournaments prohibiting Purple Hammers manufactured in 2016 and 2017 from being used in these competitions"

So how much you think a NIB purple hammer from Hopkinsville made in 2018 would go for?

PBA member = $0   (ball is older than 2 yrs)

USBC  member = normal retail price...maybe slight up tick from there

My understanding the only ones banned by USBC at National Events are the 6s and 7s so 8s and 9s are good to go.

Quote from: 3835 on March 09, 2022, 02:32:50 PM

My understanding the only ones banned by USBC at National Events are the 6s and 7s so 8s and 9s are good to go.

Here's where the issue comes in: a PBA member couldn't throw that 2018/2019 Purple Hammer at the Masters or the US Open. they are already beyond the 2-year rolling ban. A USBC member CAN throw those 2018/2019 Purple Hammers at those events.

BL.

Does it say that? Or does it say that tournaments ran by the PBA has it's own rules and tournaments rand by USBC has it's own rules?

I don't see a conflict. Then again, what do I know, I'm just another dumb-ass, right handed, mouth breathing knuckle dragger who bowls on the china side of every pattern. 

Quote from: milorafferty on March 09, 2022, 02:53:50 PM

Quote from: bradl on March 09, 2022, 02:37:52 PM

Quote from: 3835 on March 09, 2022, 02:32:50 PM

My understanding the only ones banned by USBC at National Events are the 6s and 7s so 8s and 9s are good to go.

Here's where the issue comes in: a PBA member couldn't throw that 2018/2019 Purple Hammer at the Masters or the US Open. they are already beyond the 2-year rolling ban. A USBC member CAN throw those 2018/2019 Purple Hammers at those events.

BL.

Does it say that? Or does it say that tournaments ran by the PBA has it's own rules and tournaments rand by USBC has it's own rules?

I don't see a conflict. Then again, what do I know, I'm just another dumb-ass, right handed, mouth breathing knuckle dragger who bowls on the china side of every pattern. 

Here's where it gets potentially more interesting...

I'm remembering an issue back a while ago where Matt McNeill was on 900 Global staff and just missed making the show for the Masters. It was talked about how he wouldn't be able to use anything 900G on the show because it wasnt PBA Registered at the time and the show was ran by the PBA not USBC.

If this was the case, then we'd potentially be looking at PBA guys being able to use urethane older than 2 years old until the show?

If I'm also remembering correctly, for jerseys you have to wear H5G for the show because of the PBA when you can wear EFX/Logo Infusion/Coolwick/etc outside of the finals

That's how it looks to me.

Quote from: SVstar34 on March 09, 2022, 04:01:20 PM

Quote from: milorafferty on March 09, 2022, 02:53:50 PM

Quote from: bradl on March 09, 2022, 02:37:52 PM

Quote from: 3835 on March 09, 2022, 02:32:50 PM

My understanding the only ones banned by USBC at National Events are the 6s and 7s so 8s and 9s are good to go.

Here's where the issue comes in: a PBA member couldn't throw that 2018/2019 Purple Hammer at the Masters or the US Open. they are already beyond the 2-year rolling ban. A USBC member CAN throw those 2018/2019 Purple Hammers at those events.

BL.

Does it say that? Or does it say that tournaments ran by the PBA has it's own rules and tournaments rand by USBC has it's own rules?

I don't see a conflict. Then again, what do I know, I'm just another dumb-ass, right handed, mouth breathing knuckle dragger who bowls on the china side of every pattern. 

Here's where it gets potentially more interesting...

I'm remembering an issue back a while ago where Matt McNeill was on 900 Global staff and just missed making the show for the Masters. It was talked about how he wouldn't be able to use anything 900G on the show because it wasnt PBA Registered at the time and the show was ran by the PBA not USBC.

If this was the case, then we'd potentially be looking at PBA guys being able to use urethane older than 2 years old until the show?

If I'm also remembering correctly, for jerseys you have to wear H5G for the show because of the PBA when you can wear EFX/Logo Infusion/Coolwick/etc outside of the finals

That's how it looks to me.

Let’s throw another wrench in the works.. what if a player makes the finals, but is NOT a PBA member? Would the PBA force their rules on the non-PBA member?

BL.

Avabob's solution is the best one. Perhaps it's too time consuming and labor intensive to resort to the durometer solution.

Welcome to the present day world where you now need a 2 tractor trailers just to haul all of the balls to a tournament.

You know,  sometimes the old-schoolers have the best solution to a problem. Avabob's is one of them.

THIS !!!!!

There really should be some kind of limit to the number of balls a player can bring.  It is getting ridiculous.  You can barely walk thru the seating areas anymore... there is crap everyplace.   In golf, you can have no more than 14 clubs in play.  You can have 114 in the bag, but only 14 can be determined "in-play".  Why not institute a rule that says you cannot have more than 6 rocks in any session?  Maybe 3 rocks?  That would help to end the gripes about the lack of shotmaking.  It could begin to roll back the advantages the 2 handed/thumbless bombers have.  Power is awesome, but it shouldn't be as important as it is.  I've seen good 2 handers shoot 270s and barely hit the pocket.  It's like a bomb went off when the ball hits the pins.   I know 2 handed and thumbless bowling is growing in popularity, but I'm old school and think it is hurting the game more than it is helping.