Author Topic: high average bowlers (Read 11974 times)

badbeard · « **on:** September 13, 2011, 10:26:30 AM »

why is it high average above 220 want to be on leagues that the handicap is based off 210 or lower?

Pinbuster · « **Reply #16 on:** September 14, 2011, 01:47:58 PM »

All big money leagues should be scratch. It eliminates the incentive to cheat.

I believe in handicap leagues the high aveage bowlers should be covered by the handicap max to within a handfull of pins. Or be based on the difference between team averages.

txbowler · « **Reply #17 on:** September 14, 2011, 01:51:31 PM »

But we do want to prevent any cheating team from winning.

And from another post from above. Pacing yourself at the beginning of the year is a form of sandbagging.

trash heap wrote on 9/14/2011 1:04 PM:txbowler,

The league's low percent of handicap wasn't the reason for this team lack of first place. The reason is they started too far back in the standings when they made their run. You are not going to stop a team from cheating. Your league's decision at 80% is ridiculous. You might as well make the league scratch because that is how the standings will be each year. Highest Average Team 1 - Lowest Average Team Last. Usually the only time it deviates if you have a team cheating.

We see it at the start of every year, plenty of bowlers pace themselves at the beginning. They don't want a high average.

txbowler wrote on 9/14/2011 12:04 PM:
Here is the problem you sometimes face

A team of family bowlers joins our league. (36 week league). The first 1/2 of the league all 5 of them average between 170-179. Our HDCP is set at 80% of the difference between the teams average. As of week 18 they are in 9th place out of 14 teams. On week 19, all 5 start averaging 200-205 week after week, easily winning 3 or 4 every week against every team they bowl. They climb all the way to 3-4th place before their averages finally catch up with them and they lose some the last month of the season to finish 5th I believe.

If we had set the HDCP percentage at 100%, I would be willing to bet, that their organized average manipulation would have paid off with a league championship. This is what some leagues face. Setting it below 100% does penalize lower average teams, but it also prevents teams who are manipulating the system from winning as well. You can't have it both ways.

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #18 on:** September 14, 2011, 02:42:47 PM »

The individuals that went from 170 to 200 in average .. what do they do next year? They can only do it once ..why let this one group make bowlers not bowl .. anything less then 100% handicap is UNFAIR!

MI 2 AZ · « **Reply #19 on:** September 14, 2011, 04:29:01 PM »

I was out of town during league meetings week, but on one of my leagues, there was the usual complaints about 200 average bowlers getting handicap. The lower average bowlers do not understand why it is to their benefit to give handicap to bowlers up to the highest average in the league. They just see high average bowlers getting more pins. So, at the meeting, one of the higher average bowlers suggested that instead of 90% of 215, that it be changed to 100% of 200. That way, all the bowlers under 200 will end up at 200 and the bowlers up to 230 will not get any handicap. The motion passed. Now, the lower average bowlers are happy and the higher average bowlers are walking around with smiles.

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bowlingnut07 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 14, 2011, 05:35:30 PM »

every year i see this arguement and no one has really solved it yet

and i also see both sides of this arguement. and honestly all i can really honestly say

is if u dont like 220+ avg players and u wanna beat them GET BETTER!

i being one of those players have been in a handicap league for last 5 years because there is no scratch league here and i only can bowl on sundays so there are many reason why some CANT BOWL in scratch leagues. but giving the lower avg player 100% handicapp sure its fair for them ,excuse me a lil here

but i thought handicap was designed to level the playing field when done right. i however notice that in 95% of the leagues ive bowled in a HIGH handicap team wins the league so EXPLAIN to me how thats level in any way ?

badbeard · « **Reply #21 on:** September 14, 2011, 07:09:21 PM »

no one wants 220+ average bowlers to quit any league. The idea was for the handicap to be fixed so that it is fair for low and high average bowlers to bowl on the same league that is why there is a handicap. each bowler pays the league the same money to bowl. so each should have a chance to win the prize. The other point was that in the house we bowl in the high average bowlers almost cried when we tried to change the handicap to make it even. I bowl a no tap 3 game handicap tournament where I get no handicap pins and I know that I have little chance of winning ever but I don't cry about it I just bowl my best. that is the point if you are a high average bowler 220+ don't cry just bowl your best You should want it to be fair and be proud when you win because you bowled up to your abilities

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #22 on:** September 14, 2011, 07:30:49 PM »

Well said!

the_l3g3nd_killer · « **Reply #23 on:** September 14, 2011, 07:32:48 PM »

I guess from what im reading there is no real way to solve anything about handicap. There are not many scratch leagues period. There is none in my area or at least that I am aware of...now I dont pay attention to what my league handicap rules are because i just wanna show up bowl and have a good time but here is my Tuesday League averages for my team

Bowler 1: 179

Bowler 2: 165

Bowler 3: 110 <<< He's coming from a year off from Knee Replacement

Bowler 4: 150

Bowler 5: 234

I am Bowler 5

badbeard · « **Reply #24 on:** September 14, 2011, 07:54:24 PM »

we once had a handicap league with a team average cap to keep the teams even . we had one old team bring a new young bowler bowler from the youth leagues and they were able to use his youth average to keep under the cap. Little did we know that his uncle also on the team bought him a new ball his own shoes and gave him lessons doing the summer. well long story short they did win the league and using his old 135 average he bowled mostly 190 and up games and that move my friend killed that league. So bowler number 5 be proud that you are a good bowler and the man back from the injury will advance his average as he can and you don,t have a cap to worry about

the_l3g3nd_killer · « **Reply #25 on:** September 14, 2011, 08:46:55 PM »

He is in his 70's and before he took time off was around a 155 average give or take. its slowly climbing 1st week 107, then to a 110 and so on. Im 26 and this is my 4 1/2 year in the league and the 1/2 is there former 5th bowler passed away of cancer and at that time they asked me to take over and i was at a 215 average. I had already new the 1st bowler from living in the same neighborhood. These guys are just show up and have fun bowlers they dont know the hdcp either other than getting some for avg under a certain amount...the closest we have come was 5th.

Some nights were getting like 50-100 pins and other were giving like 20-40 pins. And this league has being going on since the Early 1960's and is the biggest league in our county floating around each year from 22-24 teams which our center has 24 lanes so i dont see this league folding anytime soon. Its a league of older men id say 45 in age and higher with only id say an average of %20 younger than 30. Plus i would rather bowl in this league and have fun and average what i do regardless of hdcp rules then bowl with the bowlers out for blood in a scratch league.

the_l3g3nd_killer · « **Reply #26 on:** September 14, 2011, 08:50:22 PM »

P.S there is no cap for our league so u could get 5 240 plus avg bowlers and bowl...its a church league so if the house is not full and there are room for more teams any and all skill levels are welcomed

StickZ · « **Reply #27 on:** September 14, 2011, 09:11:37 PM »

if you average 220+ and you whine about handicap you need to quit bowling. go bowl in the pba if you are so good. I booked 210 last year and i didnt complain a bit and handicap wasnt 100%, 90% of 220. a 220 bowler is consistent, a 180 bowler isnt.

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The Bowling Pariah · « **Reply #28 on:** September 15, 2011, 12:18:02 AM »

I don't know Beard, but let me ask you this: Why do lower average bowlers always want to raise the % of handicap to the point it nullifies the advantage and skill the higher average bowlers have worked so hard to achieve? Why even bother to develop higher skills and abilities if the lower average guys are going to insist that it be given back by a default %?

Are you REALLY saying that guys who have spent lots of personal time and money to develop their skills should just hand it back to a bunch of people who either can't, or won't, make the same sacrifices to develop those skills?

WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO?

I used to be one of those "high average guys", but I'm not anymore. Time, and injury, have kept me from being able to continue to maintain my higher average, but even though I can't quite keep up anymore, I don't see why the higher average guys should have to "give" me anything.

How could I ever really be proud of beating a team who had to spot me more pins than any bowler on my team could score, in effect, making them beat me by giving me an entire bowlers scores? I've seen cases where higher average teams have had to spot lower average teams more than 175 pins a game, and there wasn't a single bowler on the lower average team whose average was that high (175). Like making five bowlers beat a team with six bowlers.

I guess I've just got a "scratch bowler" mentality, and would rather beat you honestly once in a while, than to have you "give" me half the games by being forced to let me beat you with handicap.

And, if you handicap bowlers are getting tired of getting beaten, get up off your behinds and go practice and learn how to score for yourself. Don't just sit around and wait on somebody to vote in a rule that will make everything "fair" for you.

"We" did it, so why can't "you"?

abrown · « **Reply #29 on:** September 15, 2011, 06:14:05 AM »

The league im in voted to raise the cap to 90% 230; the best thing ive ever saw was 100% the differance so you have a 5 man team avg 1100 vs a team avg 900 well someone gets jack the other get 200. only thing is where i bowl noone wants to try it

badbeard · « **Reply #30 on:** September 15, 2011, 07:03:44 AM »

this has been a good topic got some blood pumping some brains working again . handicap is there to allow all bowlers to bowl on a league together. does it work ? most centers don,t have enough good bowlers for a full scratch league. So handicap is what we have. i just see my local house loosing teams on the mens league and it makes me think . Why

Author Topic: high average bowlers (Read 11974 times)

badbeard

high average bowlers

Pinbuster

Re: high average bowlers

txbowler

Re: high average bowlers

JOE FALCO

Re: high average bowlers

MI 2 AZ

Re: high average bowlers

bowlingnut07

Re: high average bowlers

badbeard

Re: high average bowlers

JOE FALCO

Re: high average bowlers

the_l3g3nd_killer

Re: high average bowlers

badbeard

Re: high average bowlers

the_l3g3nd_killer

Re: high average bowlers

the_l3g3nd_killer

Re: high average bowlers

StickZ

Re: high average bowlers

The Bowling Pariah

Re: high average bowlers

abrown

Re: high average bowlers

badbeard

Re: high average bowlers