Author Topic: High flying back ends and the best way to control it? (Read 2841 times)

chitown · « **on:** March 19, 2006, 05:52:20 AM »

What is the best wat to tame down high flying back ends? I'm talking about a light oil sport type pattern with over reacting back ends.

What kind of ball would you use on this type of condition? What layout would you use?

Also can the use of a balance hole help control high flying back ends? If so where is the best place for it?

BrunsMike · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2006, 02:11:22 PM »

On flying backends, id play with a weak ball with a weak pin under drilling. Something like a Brunswick Dry/R with the pin under ring and CG under pin (1.5" pin placement). Then to further play, id play semi deep with little hand in the ball.
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Mike Zadler
NE Lake County IL
Sanctioned Highs:
775 Series/288 Game
Sanct. Ave. (2004/2005)194

Tweener by day, Stroker by night

Juggernaut · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2006, 02:25:18 PM »

Chitown,

The best luck I've had trying to control the backend reaction was with balls drilled with short pin-to-pap distances.

I know this will sound absurd, given the coverstock, but I had a granite gargoyle with a 2 inch pin and low topweight drilled with a 2 X 0 drill. The pin lower than the bridge, cg on pap, drilled back to 1/4 oz positive side and HIGHLY polished ( almost had the pin and cg on a line perpindicular to the grip centerline, but the pin was just a bit higher ). I could play the track area with this ball and it NEVER overreacted on the backends. As a matter of fact, I had to make sure and hit the ball good to insure that it finish strongly. Very hard to over-hit this ball.Ball had very little flare and tons of roll.

Had a killer instinct sanded ( but I polished it ) with almost the same drill on it with the exception that the pin was higher above the midline. The cg was at about a 90 degree to the grip centerline and the m.b. was in line with the cg, well below the v.a.l.
This ball was stronger than the GG, but was still smooth as glass ( for me ) and I shot some really good sets with it. Strong but VERY controllable.

I've had a couple of balls drilled with short pin to pap's and the backends seem tamer on those for me than anything else.

P.S. Just remembered. I had one ( original nitro/r ) with a short pin to pap that had a good backend, but it had the cg stacked directly below the pin, like a 2 X 2 or so, now this ball WOULD move, so it may have been a combination of the short pin to pap and the cg being at an almost 90 degrees from the grip centerline.

chitown · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2006, 03:00:29 PM »

Thanks for the info guys. One of the problems is I can't put the pin below the fingers because of my high ball track. Now on asymmetrical balls I can. Most of my equipment is symmetrical.

I have been readin about putting the pin close to my axis. The only thing I need to be careful with is keeping it above my pap. This way is wont clip the fingers.

You know this must be the biggest problem on tough lane conditions that have light oil and xtreme high flying backends.

I may need to drill a ball pin on the axis to see what it does. Thanks for the reply's I appreciate it.

scotts33 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2006, 03:10:26 PM »

quote:
I'm talking about a light oil sport type pattern with over reacting back ends.

How long is the pattern and on what type of lanes....lane topography?
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Scott

bamaster · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2006, 04:13:55 PM »

Yes, short pin like 2" from PAP will greatly calm down the backend reaction. I would add surface into the equation to smooth out the transition. Light particle load would smooth it out even more.
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Tony
My Bowling Classifieds
My Bowling Journal | My Ball Registry & Grip Specs

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2006, 04:25:35 PM »

My favorite ball was the Emerald PEarl BUzzsaw drilled 2" pin to PAP with the cg at 4" to PAP.

My H2O drilled 2" pin to PAP with mass bias under thumb is working well also.

If you have some hand you also need to avoid polish. If you polish up anything it'll automatically skid/snap.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Only the FOS has the Power of the Cobalt!

Strider · « **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2006, 05:11:27 PM »

Uncup my wrist and flatten my release using a weak resin ball (Blue Hot Flame for me) or trusty urethane (Slate Blue Gargoyle).
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Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive

stopncrank · « **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2006, 05:35:47 PM »

i currently use a blue hit solid with a pin under middle finger, cg under ring finger drill for this type condition. really wish you could use this drilling, it is very nice for me on this condition. i agree, the shorter pin to pap will probably work, and i might would use a particle(light load-med load) to smooth the reaction. maybe a big hit particle, or the power groove particle if u can find one. i think the dry/r is a lot stronger than advertised. the resin may give you too much bounce off the dry. hope this helps!
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STORM:If You Hear The Thunder,Sorry,The Lightning's Already Struck!

Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2006, 09:14:45 AM »

Truth? Use any one of a number of mild, relatively low-flaring pearls or particle pearls, or shiny solids. And use your "B" game with speed. It works. Well.
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"Now lets see you do something really tough. Like getting up."

Traumatize · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2006, 09:31:35 AM »

I have found that particle pearl balls, such as the Ace and the Onslaught, with a 2" pin to pap drilling work wonders. I drilled the Ace for a friend, MB 6 3/4 from pap under the thumb, and took the surface to 1000. Onslaught has the mb 6" from the pap for me, but under the thumb as well. Both ball are great on short patterns, as long as there is some head oil. They are very rolly, and extremely smooth.
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*Erie Community College bowling*

Buffalo bowlers are the best all around in the country.

AMF Thruway Lanes Pro Shop employee, and I have no problem saying that I'm Officially a Ball Junkie.

RevLefty · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2006, 09:50:58 AM »

best thing i found for that is: Dont matter what ball you use suggest like a particle pearl or a med reactive solid, find your axis and drill the ball with the pin on axis like i said it works with stronger covers better but you will get a nice smooth reaction from this drilling your proshop guy has to be able to find you axis cause if he misses it you could thump holes. But I have a saturn that is bea-u-tiful on over reactive back ends drilled that way here is a diagram.

O O
p cg

O

I use a 4 inch pin cause my axis is 3 7/8s from center of grip so if I get a 4 inch pin i dont have to have a weight hole. Thats things you learn from drilling stuff all funky.

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Boy do I love bowling, stone 8,stone 9, ringer 7,fly by 10,fast six got to love this game. Short look at what most of my games look like with a few strikes peppered in between. Isn't it wonderful.

BackToBasics · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2006, 11:04:53 AM »

Surface, surface, surface. Use as much surface as you can to get it down the lane. 1000, 1500, 2000 or 4000 grit. The earlier the ball will burn, the less backend. Particles work really well on these conditions because you can straighten out your angles. The heavier the load the smoother. Also, go with a 0, 25 or 30* layouts which will cause the ball to lose axis rotation quicker and have less backend.

Layouts that have worked well for me (high rev, high axis rotation) are axis leverage, pin 5" with CG and extra hole on the axis and pin 6" with MB 1.5" from axis on asymmetrical balls.

Ragnar · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2006, 11:19:08 AM »

particle = good
particle pearl = better

2 x 2 layout (or less. Pin closer to PAP = good)
Chitown, you can put the pin below the fingers. Just keep it on a line from finger to PAP. As the pin migrates south of the fingers it has to migrate east, towards your PAP.

Shiny reactive = death.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)

BackToBasics · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2006, 11:41:38 AM »

quote:
particle = good
particle pearl = better

I wouldn't say particle pearls are better. Depends on some factors but particle pearls still may not blead off enough energy. There are some very angular particle pearls out. It really all depends on chi's environment.

Also, if any oil migrates down the lane, pins close to the axis lose hit and if the fronts start going, they lose hit even more. They may have a limited use if scoring is a consideration (vs just getting to the pocket).

Author Topic: High flying back ends and the best way to control it? (Read 2841 times)

chitown

High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

BrunsMike

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

Juggernaut

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

chitown

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

scotts33

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

bamaster

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

Doug Sterner

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

Strider

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

stopncrank

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

Phillip Marlowe

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

Traumatize

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

RevLefty

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

BackToBasics

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

Ragnar

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?

BackToBasics

Re: High flying back ends and the best way to control it?