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Author Topic: High track  (Read 3068 times)

Moe

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High track
« on: January 11, 2005, 03:46:37 PM »
I have a very high track that often times goes through the thumb hole, waht kinda things can i work on to remedy this?

It usually doesnt roll through the fingers though, just the thumb. Pin placement on this ball is to the right of the ring finger, and the CG is just under the ring finger.

HRPS 2-3in pin.

Thoughts?
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charlest

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Re: High track
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2005, 06:00:41 AM »
For high track bowlers, the pin must be either on the line from the ring finger to the bowler's positive axis point or, preferably, above it.

You could also try to get your thumb out earlier, and add a little more axis rotation upon release to lower your track somewhat. With today's balls, a slightly lower track in the 4.5-5.5" range, (more than 1/2" - 3/4" from both thumb and finger) seems to make for better ball reactions.
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Moe

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Re: High track
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2005, 10:59:00 AM »
Pin is 1/2in above and to the right of the ring finger on this ball.

I will give that a try later today, thanks.

PAP= the area directly to the right of the pin for a riht handed bowler right?
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Jeffrevs

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Re: High track
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2005, 11:16:30 AM »
quote:
Pin is 1/2in above and to the right of the ring finger on this ball.

I will give that a try later today, thanks.

PAP= the area directly to the right of the pin for a riht handed bowler right?
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AIM = y2moe99


no...the pap is the positive axis point...it's the point where the ball spins from or rotates around and it's different for all bowlers....
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JEFF
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Moe

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Re: High track
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2005, 11:47:03 AM »
So if i track very high, and ocasionally thumb hole the ball, that would give me alot of foward roll. Correct?

Im still not understanding this PAP think, time to google.

PAP = This is the point on a ball that it wants to initially rotate about when a bowler releases it. The bowler's style determines this location. It is measured from the center of the grip over a distance along the midline and up or down a distance along the mid plane (vertical axis line).

So in lamens terms...
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AIM = y2moe99

Edited on 1/12/2005 12:47 PM

Edited on 1/12/2005 1:15 PM

Jeffrevs

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Re: High track
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2005, 11:49:15 AM »
it means you come around the side of the ball more than you should....I 'm a high tracker as well that is learning to migrate lower...
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JEFF
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Moe

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Re: High track
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2005, 11:55:25 AM »
http://www.bowlingball.com/Proshop/BallLayouts/ball_layouts.html

So i basically throw a full roller as described by this site.  In the "drilling instructions for different bowling styles"
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janderson

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Re: High track
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2005, 12:27:20 PM »
Moe - imagine taking a perfectly white ball and rolling it straight through some wet paint on a flat surface.  The result would be a red line on the ball where the surface of the ball contacted the paint.  This red line represents your track.

Now imagine the same ball with the red line intact.  Consider sticking a pole completely through the ball so that, when you roll the ball straight through the paint again: 1) the ball will roll on the same line you've already made on the ball and 2) the pole sticking through the ball will not "wobble" ... in other words as the ball with the pole stuck through it rolls straight through the paint, the pole will be sticking straight out to either side, parallel to the surface of the paint.  The pole represents your rotational axis.  The axis points (there are two) are the points on both sides of the ball where the pole exits/enters the surface of the ball.

With a bowling ball, the pole is imaginary, but your rotational axis does exist.  Your axis points are the two points, one on each side of your track, that are the same distance from all points on your track.  In general, layman's terms: If you're a right hander and you hook the ball to the left (in other words, you don't throw a backup ball), when you look at the ball with the fingers above the thumb, your positive axis point (PAP) will be to the right of the track.  Flip that for lefties.  In more technical terms, the positive axis point is the axis point closer to the track.  You'll need a low- or non-flaring ball thrown normally through some oil to easily find your axis points.  Your ball driller should be able to help here.

Axis tilt (not rotation) determines the size and "height" of your track.  If you take the ball above with the pole through it - you can keep the pole parallel to the surface of the paint and turn it in any fashion.  As long as the pole remains parallel to the surface as the ball rolls through the paint, you'll get the same track.  Another way to think about tilt versus rotation is to think about the front wheels on a car.  You can turn the wheels to make the car turn, but the wheels stay up-and-down in relation to the pavement (and a pole stuck through them would be parallel to the street surface).  The only way to achieve tilt would be to get the car up on two wheels.

Consider a perfectly green ball (without any pole) and spinning it like a top in the paint.  You would end up with a red circle on the bottom of the ball.  Now your rotational (the pole) has been tilted to be perpendicular (standing straight up-and-down) to the the surface of the paint.  The end result is that the pole is standing straight up and down and your PAP is touching the surface of the paint.

Most bowlers that throw a hook are between the two extremes (white ball versus green ball).  The ball is thrown so that the pole (rotational axis) is actually thrown at an angle to the surface of the lane.  The more angle, the more tilt and the "lower" the track (in relation to the finger holes).  The less angle (the more parallel to the lane surface) the less tilt and the "higher" the track.

Hope this helps
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Edited on 1/12/2005 1:26 PM

Moe

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Re: High track
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2005, 12:53:27 PM »
Yea i understand that, but didnt understand the PAP part.

I finally grasped on to the axis tilt and axis rotation after reading this... http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip35.htm

Its getting a little more clear now.
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Moe

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Re: High track
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2005, 11:04:49 PM »
Yea i talked this over with my proshop guy, and he called a full roller "old school" and told me that theres nothing really wrong with it, but its harder to score on most of the lane conditions out there and thers only one real layout for a full roller.  And then your stuck playing with coverstocks and cores to find a ball that reacts right for you, which could get expensive.

So i guess i need to work on getting the thumb out eairler, i noticed tonight during leauge that when i get my thumb out and dont thumb hole the ball the reaction is very consistant.

Now i have something to really practice.
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stanski

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Re: High track
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2005, 11:30:03 PM »
Guys, does anyone have a straight answer on why people track over the thumb? I have seen this before with some of my balls, and to tell you the truth, really don't understand it too much. Everyone always says it should hit the middle finger if anything from flare, but it has never been that way with balls that I have thrown. Is there any real reason why you track over it, or is it just that you are throwing the ball different? I know i only track over it when i seem to throw the ball bad, not when i throw a good shot.
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stanski

Moe

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Re: High track
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2005, 11:33:15 PM »
The answer is up further in the thread.  One of the guys atributed it to keeping your thumb in the ball to long, thusly taking away side roll from the ball and giving it alot of foward roll upon release.
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janderson

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Re: High track
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2005, 02:00:17 PM »
Again, "side roll" or increased axis rotation has absolutely nothing to do with the location or size of your track.

As in the example, it doesn't matter how much you turn the wheel of your car, as long as all four wheels are on flat pavement, you're using the same part of the tire.  You have to tilt (ie. axis tilt) the car onto two wheels to change the rubber in contact with the pavement.
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JohnP

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Re: High track
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2005, 09:19:30 PM »
quote:
In more technical terms, the positive axis point is the axis point closer to the track.  


janderson -- This is incorrect.  Consider a spinner.  The PAP is much further from the track than the NAP (negative axis point) is.  The best way I've found to explain the PAP is that it is the axis point that is located on the opposite side of the grip from the track.  --  JohnP

janderson

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Re: High track
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2005, 01:39:40 PM »
quote:
janderson -- This is incorrect.  Consider a spinner.  The PAP is much further from the track than the NAP (negative axis point) is.  The best way I've found to explain the PAP is that it is the axis point that is located on the opposite side of the grip from the track.  --  JohnP


John is correct - I had it backwards.  The PAP is the axis point furthest from the track and the negative axis point is closest.
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Kill the back row (or maybe this should read "make your spares, dummy")