Hello Friends,

I have had a disturbing run of balls lately where B7 HK-22 balls seem to be wearing out and losing their performance much quicker than other balls. I have had this experience with the Brutal Collision, Paragon Pearl, Outer Limits Pearl and just had an Emerge Pearl brick within 10 games out of box. My league mates were confusing my Emerge with my Mix it bricked so bad.

I realize you're going to say surface and detox... but I have touched these balls up and tried to bring them back but they just lose their out of the box characteristics quickly. Which breaks my heart because a fresh Brutal Collision or a fresh Paragon Pearl are two of the best balls I've ever thrown. Out of the box HK-22 stuff is like playing on a different gravity setting. But after 50-100 games, they just lose that ability and become a little erratic while bricking.

I thought this was an HK-22 phenomenon but then took my 300+ game Katana Assault for the first time in a few months and that ball is still exploding down the hill and is just butter.

I also realize people will say "new ball carry" but my main go to balls are a beat to death Trailblazer Solid, a beat to death Katana Assault and an old Purple because nothing out performs these balls, for me.

I'm sorry in advance. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I realize this site is mainly for staff people trying to hype things. I'm just a 190 avg dude who likes bowling. But it sucks because i want to try all these new balls and I've been on a bad run the last year or so buying balls and not getting along with them. Also it sucks because balls like the Brutal Collision are Godly and then it's so sad when that performance just goes away. I've really started looking for balls without HK-22 for future purchases, my experiences with it have been that concerning.

With how much I love the Radical TrailBlazer Solid, I want to buy a truck load of the Radical Conspiracy... but not sure I want to put down a bunch of money to buy balls that will brick...

Your thoughts? No bully, please. I love B7 and don't want to throw anything else.

Unfortunately i have experienced it with probably 4 or 5 balls in the last 20 years. One was from Dynothane and later learned on here they had a bad run where the coverstock was actually urethane not reactive. The others id assume something wasn't right based off the balls reaction. You see the core going through the phases but it is almost like the converstock is plastic and just doesn't do its part on the lanes. Surface, different houses etc just doesn't work. Even having other people try the ball and have the same results. It is very disappointing to say the least.

 

Quote from: ignitebowling on October 02, 2024, 08:10:55 AM

Quote from: MJS73 on October 01, 2024, 05:00:46 PM

I throw a Dark Web Hybrid every Tuesday night and it’s a great ball, one of my favorites. There’s nothing “defective” about it. In fact, I just bought another one on the secondary market to stash away. I would take a closer look at how yours is drilled. That probably has more to do with your dislike for the ball than the ball itself.

Interesting. It is drilled with a 5" pin just like so many other great bowling balls I have yet it is the only one where you can see the ball going through the motions and the coverstock being DOA just like watching a plastic ball with a core. Three different houses and one "sport" condition and the ball coverstock is trash. Tried less surface minus using actual polish because at that point the ball is not what I was needing. Bad pour likely. Certainly a good reason for it to be discontinued quickly. Glad it was on clearance and not at full price.

I think bad pours are possible. I feel like I got a bad pour from Storm last year with a Journey because mine just wanted to read early and puke down lane. The best it looked was on 36' Women's US Open pattern

And lets accept I know exactly where the asymmetry will be on said ball every time after it has been drilled and it has nothing to do with the drill angle number. Without a weight hole you can not manipulate that angle.

Quote from: ignitebowling on October 08, 2024, 07:34:14 AM

Maybe in your mind the angles are crucial. On a symmetric ball only one of the angles is in play. Even then the angle has minimal affect on the ball reaction. As long as you are not flaring over holes because of the angle. The differences are minimal for most players. If the angle is 15 or 70 the 5" pin to pap is the bigger factor on the layout and controlling the balls flare and ability to slow down. The coverstock is the biggest factor and it is very much trash. It is very visible with the ball reaction on the lane one thing is not working like the others.

So let's accept your incorrect premise that the angles don't matter on a symmetric ball. Symmetric balls are only symmetric in the box. Once you punch holes in a symmetric ball it is no longer symmetric.

Go ahead and drill a few of the same balls, symmetric or asymmetric, with different angles. You’ll see the differences immediately.  Or claim the differences are due to bad pours.

Done. Pin to pap is the bigger determining factor in the difference for most bowlers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiD43olBReY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTWaHAxS58k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0MBB7BUxRI

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on October 04, 2024, 01:21:51 PM

Quote from: SVstar34 on October 02, 2024, 01:41:00 PM

I think bad pours are possible. I feel like I got a bad pour from Storm last year with a Journey because mine just wanted to read early and puke down lane. The best it looked was on 36' Women's US Open pattern

I question this. I had a horrible run of Storm balls that all came from the same Pro Shop. Like three or more that I just did not get along with and I did not care for. I've always wondered if that Pro Shop was laying some inferior quality balls on me or why that was happening when I liked all the SPI stuff I would buy online. It actually is one of the main things that got me into B7 balls since I kept buying SPI balls near retail price I did not care for. And I could dumpster dive B7 balls and almost get two B7 balls for the price of one SPI ball.

I say all of this respectfully and only report my experiences.

Was this right after they released the balls with Reacta-Gloss?  If so, then just about everyone had issues until Storm made some adjustments  to improve the polish.  My bad experience (and not really that bad) is with the Fate.  The ball rolls like an asym when it isnt.  I got it specifically to move way inside and open my angles and when I do, the ball rolls forward at the breakpoint.  Everyone I bumped this off of (including Luke Rosdahl), says I did not do anything crazy with the layout (4.75 x 25).  No matter what surface I put the ball at, it goes forward.  The ball is great when I can close my angles and play further right but it wasnt what I got the ball for; especially since it was marketed as a ball you could get way inside with and not worry about leaving a bunch of corner pins.

Did you try hitting it with a 3000 pad?
[/quote]

I did not go 3000 but with 2000.  I tried it OOB first and the ball went crazy sideways on the backend.  It still wanted to roll a little forward.  So i knocked the polish off with a 2000 CTD pad.  It still went forward but it tamed down the backend a touch.  I went as far as 1500 and still the same thing.  My thought is the layout.  I wonder if I went with a 45-50 degree angle as opposed to 25 if that would help it transition better and take away that forward roll. 

Quote from: MJS73 on October 08, 2024, 03:18:28 PM

With the differences in spray and release (and in some cases speed) I can see why you don’t see a difference between the two layouts.

But I do think you’re onto something.  Early in league last night I made a bad shot and when I came back I said “Wow, bad pour on that ball”.  I then noticed that the others on my team and even on the other team were making bad shots and complaining about bad pours.  By the end of the night, even bowlers on the adjoining pairs were complaining about bad pours.  So the bad pour problem is far more widespread than I realized.

Funny throwbots release seemed ok and so did the other video but they had the same results in ball reaction. Yet me saying a ball that has no reaction like the coverstock is dead and the core is just going through the motions alone is somehow insulting your very being to defend it so hard to be anything else.

Next time I know it must be the angle I used in drilling. Maybe an odd number was the issue vs an even number reacting better.

Well, you have to start somewhere.

Quote from: ignitebowling on October 08, 2024, 07:34:14 AM

Maybe in your mind the angles are crucial. On a symmetric ball only one of the angles is in play. Even then the angle has minimal affect on the ball reaction. As long as you are not flaring over holes because of the angle. The differences are minimal for most players. If the angle is 15 or 70 the 5" pin to pap is the bigger factor on the layout and controlling the balls flare and ability to slow down. The coverstock is the biggest factor and it is very much trash. It is very visible with the ball reaction on the lane one thing is not working like the others.

Quote from: MJS73 on October 02, 2024, 05:39:03 PM

Quote from: ignitebowling on October 02, 2024, 08:10:55 AM

Quote from: MJS73 on October 01, 2024, 05:00:46 PM

I throw a Dark Web Hybrid every Tuesday night and it’s a great ball, one of my favorites. There’s nothing “defective” about it. In fact, I just bought another one on the secondary market to stash away. I would take a closer look at how yours is drilled. That probably has more to do with your dislike for the ball than the ball itself.

Interesting. It is drilled with a 5" pin just like so many other great bowling balls I have yet it is the only one where you can see the ball going through the motions and the coverstock being DOA just like watching a plastic ball with a core. Three different houses and one "sport" condition and the ball coverstock is trash. Tried less surface minus using actual polish because at that point the ball is not what I was needing. Bad pour likely. Certainly a good reason for it to be discontinued quickly. Glad it was on clearance and not at full price.

The 5” pin-to-PAP is only part of the equation, the first and second angles are crucial.  For example, mine is drilled 70 x 5 x 45, which is not an especially strong layout yet it’s a strong ball on our medium house shot.  Could be the layout doesn’t suit you or could be you just don't match up with that particular ball.  We've all bought balls we didn't match up with.

But doesnt the angle determine the flare ring separation and differential?  Higher drilling angles (lower pin) tighten them and decreases diff while lower drill angles (higher pin) widen them and increases the diff?  I thought pin to PAP distance determined length down the lane before the core wanted to take over.  Wouldnt a 5 by 70 degree roll very different than a 5 by 10 degree?

But doesnt the angle determine the flare ring separation and differential?  Higher drilling angles (lower pin) tighten them and decreases diff while lower drill angles (higher pin) widen them and increases the diff?

The difference created by these changes in val angle are minimal. Max flare separation created by the core being most unstable is with the pin at 3 3/8" from your pap.  Any deviation plus or minus from 3 3/8" will reduce the flare of the ball.

When you watch throwbot in the video above throw two balls with 4.5" pin to paps and one has a 35 degree val and the other a 60 degree val with the exception of the 200 rev rate bowler (pin down goes longer and hooks less) and the 600 rev rate bowler (pin down ball hooks earlier and covers more boards) the two balls track on top of each other (300 and 400 rpm bowlers(. Most bowlers will will see no difference.



 I thought pin to PAP distance determined length down the lane before the core wanted to take over.  Wouldnt a 5 by 70 degree roll very different than a 5 by 10 degree?

Pin to pap controls the flare of the ball the coverstock, bowlers style, and condition will determine the length. Flare reduces when going away from 3 3/8" either direction. A 1" pin will have the core lay side ways or horizontal depending on how you want to look at it, opposite a 5.75" pin will do the same thing but on the cores vertical axis, standing up right. Both layouts are 1" from their axis and migrate the same distance before burning off energy, they just end with the core in different positions.

When watching the video changing the val had minimal affect on the ball reaction. To see the affects of drilling on the core numbers and simulations on the lane download the trial version of the blueprint software and see for yourself.  http://www.blueprintbowling.com/