Author Topic: handicap/sandbagging rant (Read 1911 times)

lsf_21 · « **on:** February 21, 2009, 04:43:58 PM »

so is there a point that your noticeably sandbag and should be rerated?
like 160 average and shot 660-670? 3 times in the same tournament on a rather tough shot?
so hes leading singles, leading doubles, and team is in first

my team who has 217 pins of handicap cap(5 man team) which i thought was a little high shot 3084 scratch for 3301
team in first has 780 something pins of handicap to shot 3314
and team in 2nd has 800 pins of handicap to shot 3304
WTF thats like having one more bowler averaging over 260 for them which i believe is NOT FAIR at all

but the aggravating thing to me is that one person that bowls in this house who averages 140 in lg in this house shots 2 high 500s and a 600 noticeably bagging it in lg.. oh well wish the assoc. would grow some balls a rerate like they should.

this is not a rant saying my team should be in first yadda yadda yadda i just hate that people who noticeably bag it and are damn proud of themselves for doing it b/c they can do something in a tournament

this to me is saying "man sucks for you to learn how to bowl and have the integrity to get as many pins in a game as you can"
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Atochabsh · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2009, 04:42:52 AM »

We've rerated quite a few people in our association. But it takes history to track their bagging. You can't just go off one season. So if you suspect sandbagging, you need to have several years of proof, such as quitting leagues before the 21 game average cut off, winning tournaments not just in town but in the surrounding areas, switching hands, summer league averages that are much higher then winter. Those kinds of things.

YOu can also make sure that all average rules are followed for the tournament you are in. Many sandbaggers do not follow the fine lettering of average qualifications. Like the 10 pin rule, if you are currently averaging 10 pins over your last book average you need to report that to the tournament committee. this is a common rule. Also the January 1st rule. Most associations collect a January 1st average and some tournaments use this if its the current high average.

All tournaments have a period of "protest" and if you find evidence that there's deliberate sandbagging you need to bring it to the tournament committee. People have been disqualified, its not unheard of. But there needs to be some supportive evidence.

Erin

lsf_21 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2009, 07:24:07 PM »

asked about it today they said its they researched it and everything was ok

but the fact that EVER year in the association the guy finally learns to bowl seems to be enough proof but w/e
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GO CUBS!!!!
GO CELTICS!!!!

rymacatthedisco · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2009, 09:04:44 PM »

i have to say that i hate handicap but sometimes you just have to go with the system...sure it isnt right all the time but it is what it is...i bowled my city tourney last weekend shot 2050 scratch and got 53 sticks a set because i bowl at a house at school that is not a very good house and i am averaging 204...i average around 225-230 at home...needless to say a lot of people are not very happy that i get to have that, but last year i ended up at 217 and the tourney has a 15 pin drop rule so it is all legit...

like i said sometimes the system is great, but other times it sucks...
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RYAN MCDANIEL...University of Wisconsin Whitewater Men's Bowling...5th place at nationals in 07/08

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lsf_21 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2009, 11:48:51 PM »

btw the tournament was based out of 210 not some really high number

i live with it but the thought of somebody sandbagging just to do good in a few tournaments just rubs me the wrong way
i might bowl like crap for a few weeks but its definitely not me trying to keep my average down
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GO CUBS!!!!
GO CELTICS!!!!

Atochabsh · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:01:48 AM »

quote:
i live with it but the thought of somebody sandbagging just to do good in a few tournaments just rubs me the wrong way

Unfortunately its not just a few tournaments. We see folks that supplement their income in the range of $400 to $1000+ a month. Imagine $1000 a month tax free just for bowling a day each weekend or every other weekend. Its not just the tournament prize fund its also brackets and side pots.

Erin

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:19:29 AM »

If you want to win handicap tourneys, ya'll best learn to sandbag. Otherwise, you're going to keep getting thumped by baggers. It's a flawed system, and nobody seems to care to do what is necessary to correct it.

IMO, tournaments SHOULD BE a place to MAN UP and bowl scratch, on a challenging condition, and see just what kind of bowler you are and where you stand in the pecking order. Handicap in a tournament is a joke, IMO.

I just think that a tournament is where THE BEST BOWLER should win. No free sticks. No do-overs. If you don't bowl good enough, you don't win!

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9~

Internet Tough Guy

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9andaWiggle · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:19:33 AM »

If you want to win handicap tourneys, ya'll best learn to sandbag. Otherwise, you're going to keep getting thumped by baggers. It's a flawed system, and nobody seems to care to do what is necessary to correct it.

IMO, tournaments SHOULD BE a place to MAN UP and bowl scratch, on a challenging condition, and see just what kind of bowler you are and where you stand in the pecking order. Handicap in a tournament is a joke, IMO.

I just think that a tournament is where THE BEST BOWLER should win. No free sticks. No do-overs. If you don't bowl good enough, you don't win!

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9~

Internet Tough Guy

Cyberspace Sheep Lover

triggerman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:27:48 AM »

once again, lifetime average for all usbc members tourneys should be weighted, like USBC tourney, 3 or 4 times factored in average, aall other tourneys 2 times in the mix, and no matter what your scores get added into your average, whether you bowl 3 games in one league or 100 games, they all get added in, this would give a true average of ones ability, without sandbagging for one year factoring in, one would have to throw off for years to get the average low
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spmcgivern · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:32:21 AM »

quote:
If you want to win handicap tourneys, ya'll best learn to sandbag. Otherwise, you're going to keep getting thumped by baggers. It's a flawed system, and nobody seems to care to do what is necessary to correct it.

IMO, tournaments SHOULD BE a place to MAN UP and bowl scratch, on a challenging condition, and see just what kind of bowler you are and where you stand in the pecking order. Handicap in a tournament is a joke, IMO.

I just think that a tournament is where THE BEST BOWLER should win. No free sticks. No do-overs. If you don't bowl good enough, you don't win!

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9~

Internet Tough Guy

Cyberspace Sheep Lover

I will be the first to admit that bowling scratch is a way to eliminate sandbagging. But why change the entire system just to affect the miniscule amount of people who sandbag? By making tournaments scratch, you will eliminate all bowlers who feel they can't compete. Does this mean they don't have the balls to compete, I don't think so. It is a simple reality.

On a side note, a person's definition of sandbagging can change day-to-day. You can look at a lot of bowlers and find a way to declare them a sandbagger.
It all depends in the definition.

Simple thing is to just accept the rules as they are and bowl your best. If you don't win, you don't win. If you don't like the format, then don't bowl. Imagine if local association tournaments weren't handicapped. How many bowlers do you think would participate?
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I am not a pro-bowler, but I do play one on BallReviews.com

los2003 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:35:19 AM »

But in a way your should expect it in some city and state tourneys.. You know it's hadicap going in so it should be expected to and extent..

Atochabsh · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2009, 11:28:33 PM »

quote:
But why change the entire system just to affect the miniscule amount of people who sandbag?

Its not a miniscule amount. All the people we have rerated have not returned to the tournaments they once preyed on. Why is that?

Many of the ones we have rerated then go to bowling with their opposite hand the next season. If no one kept track of what hand was their "natural" hand then that's another sandbagging technique.

Common tactic is to not reply to certified mail. Becuase it could be notice of rerate hearing. "I didn't get the notification".....because they refused to pick up the certified letter that is demanded to uphold rerates.

These people are invested in their tournament play and sandbagging. Its like another job to them.

Erin

Author Topic: handicap/sandbagging rant (Read 1911 times)

lsf_21

handicap/sandbagging rant

Atochabsh

Re: handicap/sandbagging rant

lsf_21

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rymacatthedisco

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lsf_21

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Atochabsh

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9andaWiggle

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9andaWiggle

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triggerman

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spmcgivern

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los2003

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Atochabsh

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