Author Topic: How do I ROLL the ball vs throwing it? (Read 12332 times)

Neptune66 · « **on:** January 23, 2011, 11:15:58 PM »

Am an experienced bowler, and have my share of successes, but am very inconsistent at times. While I feel its mostly mental, many good bowlers are constanatly telling me that I do not roll the ball, but merely throw it out onto the lane.

It FEELS as if I am rolling it, but lets assume for this conversation that they are right and that I do NOT roll the ball. What part of the delivery is most responsible for placing a roll on the ball or creating revs (if its the same thing)? Maybe its more of a "when" vs a "what" and I am just trying to add rotation to the ball at the wrong point in my delivery?

I'm not expecting anyone to be able to FIX me in this forum without the benefit of videos, etc... Just interested in possibly identifying a certain point or motion of my delivery that I can concentrate on to try to add more revs... or add them with more consistency and less concious energy having to be focused on the task.

Thanks in advance for any advice/thoughts/feedback.

Edited by Neptune66 on 1/24/2011 at 8:17 AM

Edited by Neptune66 on 1/24/2011 at 10:41 AM

JohnP · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2011, 06:17:28 PM »

There are several Norm Duke instructional videos on YouTube. One of them is on rolling the ball, he uses a drill with the bowler down on one knee, sliding the ball until the release point. Do a search and see if you can find it, it might help you. -- JohnP

Neptune66 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2011, 09:29:46 AM »

I watched it and another one about rotation and even though I have heard it described before, was impressed with the point about not putting any force behind the ball until just before its released. In other words, I am pushing the ball much earlier in my swing than necessary. According to the Norm Duke video, I should let the ball drop naturally and then just accelerate my arm swing as I am releasing it.

Ironically... this is what happens by accident when I occasionally am dropping or losing the ball while delivering it. Timing is off and thumb comes out too soon and while I am delivering the ball onto the lane, it's falling off my hand. It's not my normal or planned delivery and sometimes it happens to such a degree that I am completely dropping it or sending it into the gutter. But other times, despite not liking the feeling of losing control of the ball prematurely it actually comes off my hand with more rotation than normal and rolls into the pocket for a nice soild strike ---despite my insisting to my teammates that it was a mistake.

And yesterday, I ----before seeing your post--- my friend even made the observation after one of those "accidental" dropping ball strikes, that maybe my thumb is staying in the ball too long on my "on-purpose" deliveries.

Anyway....something for me to look into.

Thank you!

Edited by Neptune66 on 1/30/2011 at 10:31 AM

Juggernaut · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2011, 10:30:36 AM »

Rolling VS Throwing to me sounds like a match between the old school bowlers Marshall Holman and Mark Roth.

Marshall Holman had one of the rolliest releases I can think of, while Roth had a "grip it and rip it" method that produced power from lofting it with lots of sideroll.

Go to youtube and search for the 1978 Quaker State tournament. They faced each other in the championship match.

Nevermind. Here are the links so you don't have to look for them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oyCgNRq2_k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv0md3Z5f_Y

"Yeah, I throw AMF. What's it to ya"?

Neptune66 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2011, 03:17:44 PM »

I'm pretty sure I'm not squeezing the ball... at least not most of the time. But my thumb tends to shrink a little after starting a match, and knowing this I am sometimes slow to add tape to the thumbhole, and this causes me to have a slightly tighter grip on the ball. It's not something that happens a lot.

But when it does happen, it's usually cause I am so busy concentrating on a certain aspect of my delivery (like how much loft to use ---if any---, or walking straight, or how much lift to impart on the ball) that I completely relax my hand when it hasn't yet passed a certain point in the swing.

However.... I have never viewed my delivery on video. Frankly... am scared to see how awkward I might appear. Some day... I may get over that hang-up and take a look, but for now I would rather FEEL that I look like I am a pro when throwing the ball, then see how dorky my delivery really is.

I did go to my favorite house today and one conclusion I have finally reached ---and it's been pointed out in other posts in this forum many times---is that I am going to move my practice sessions to the house where I have more difficulty instead of having them at the "good" house.

First of all, are the reasons given my other posters...that practicing a shot I am already realtively proficient at is not as beneficial as practicing on the tougher one. But another factor is that I know so many people at what is the easier house for me, that it is nearly impossible for me to come in and work on something without some person ---be they relatively close friend or just an aquaitance---from coming up to me and being anywhere from social to trying to HELP me. I learn better when I can experiment on my own....usually.

Anyway... from this point forward, I intend to practice at a house where I am relatively invisible, and where the shot is not my favorite one.

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2011, 03:25:42 PM »

In my opinion, there is no better coaching tool than video. Seeing what you are actually doing versus what you feel like you are doing will tell you a lot. What feels to me like a straight pushaway, for example, is actually several inches to the right. My body just doesn't know any better. Therefore, I have to compensate and feel like I'm pushing the ball left to get it properly in line for most shots. I would never have realized this without watching video of myself bowling. And working with a good coach who uses video is INCREDIBLY helpful. The time I spent working with Mike Jasnau in Reno last year at Nationals was well-spent, and the DVD I got of the coaching session helps me whenever I lapse into bad habits.

Also, if you liked those Norm Duke instruction videos you saw on Youtube, I really do recommend his coaching DVD. Yeah, it's something like $39, but it's a good investment in my opinion. If you win just one jackpot in league because of it, you've already more than paid for it! The guy is a great teacher. I'd love to get a chance to work one on one with him someday. But until then, the DVD is still damn helpful.

Neptune66 wrote on 1/30/2011 4:17 PM:
I'm pretty sure I'm not squeezing the ball... at least not most of the time. But my thumb tends to shrink a little after starting a match, and knowing this I am sometimes slow to add tape to the thumbhole, and this causes me to have a slightly tighter grip on the ball. It's not something that happens a lot.

But when it does happen, it's usually cause I am so busy concentrating on a certain aspect of my delivery (like how much loft to use ---if any---, or walking straight, or how much lift to impart on the ball) that I completely relax my hand when it hasn't yet passed a certain point in the swing.

However.... I have never viewed my delivery on video. Frankly... am scared to see how awkward I might appear. Some day... I may get over that hang-up and take a look, but for now I would rather FEEL that I look like I am a pro when throwing the ball, then see how dorky my delivery really is.

I did go to my favorite house today and one conclusion I have finally reached ---and it's been pointed out in other posts in this forum many times---is that I am going to move my practice sessions to the house where I have more difficulty instead of having them at the "good" house.

First of all, are the reasons given my other posters...that practicing a shot I am already realtively proficient at is not as beneficial as practicing on the tougher one. But another factor is that I know so many people at what is the easier house for me, that it is nearly impossible for me to come in and work on something without some person ---be they relatively close friend or just an aquaitance---from coming up to me and being anywhere from social to trying to HELP me. I learn better when I can experiment on my own....usually.

Anyway... from this point forward, I intend to practice at a house where I am relatively invisible, and where the shot is not my favorite one.

Author Topic: How do I ROLL the ball vs throwing it? (Read 12332 times)

Neptune66

How do I ROLL the ball vs throwing it?

JohnP

Re: How do I ROLL the ball vs throwing it?

Neptune66

Re: How do I ROLL the ball vs throwing it?

Juggernaut

Re: How do I ROLL the ball vs throwing it?

Neptune66

Re: How do I ROLL the ball vs throwing it?

Dan Belcher

Re: How do I ROLL the ball vs throwing it?