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Author Topic: How do you find the VAL?  (Read 2351 times)

Nicanor

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How do you find the VAL?
« on: February 03, 2011, 10:52:37 PM »
Trying to figure out where/how the VAL is located.  I'm trying to learn the dual angle layout method.

 

Thanks,

 


Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)

 

jls

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Re: How do you find the VAL?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2011, 11:55:06 AM »
John, maybe in that post I didn't word very clearly......As you said, the person's PAP does not change...But if we move their span by 3/4 of an inch away from  the pin...Then their PAP is no longer on the original VAL...And that it what I meant by the PAP moved...
 
And what started out as a 4" pin to the PAP is now a 3 1/4" pin to the PAP...
 
Now as for the warranty issue...Recently I had a cracked Mission 2.0... When I sent in my request to the Dist. for a RA #,  I received an email with a letter from Ebonite stating that the ball is under warranty as long as the pin is at least 1" away from any hole...  And I believe it did say something about a 1/2 being ok...But they would prefer when laying the ball out to keep it 1" away...
 
Now the point to all of this...
 
If a customer believes he was given a drilling with the pin 5" to his PAP, only to be told six weeks later by another pro shop { after he left a ten pin } that it was only  4 1/4" away,  He might be upset with the shop that drilled the ball...  Since he was lead to believe that the pin was 5" away from his PAP...
 
And since we all have read post on this site saying,,,, If your pro shop does not find your PAP, run don't walk to another pro shop.... And since we all know that a customer will be big time upset if their ball cracks and is not warrantied due to the fact that the pin was placed too close to a drilled hole...
 
You can't have it both ways............And as some other pro shops have posted,  most ball companies say... MOVE IT,  { the PIN } it won't matter.... Yet these are the same ball companies that have convinced the consumer that your ball must be drilled EXACTLY to your PAP,  or it will not roll right and it will self destruct upon impacting the pins...
 
So pro shops basically have to make a choice, drill it according to the customer's PAP and possibly risk voiding a warranty, or move the pin, thus changing a desired layout slightly...And risk having another pro shop say, "your ball was not drilled according to your PAP,  It's 3/4" off".
 
Like Complete said,   sometimes can't tell the difference....
 
 
 
 
JohnP wrote on 2/7/2011 9:55 AM:
I also agree with jls, just wanted to clarify his post about the PAP changing so non-drillers would understand what really happens.  I took the Ebonite two day class on layouts and lane play about three years ago, it was taught by Jeff Ussery who is now the Hammer brand manager.  He told us that Ebonite brands are using poured pins instead of pressed pins and that 1/2" was fine.  That's what I've been going by and haven't had any cracked balls.  I hadn't heard about the Ebonite letter to distributors, so I guess I'll have to change.  Honestly, I get very few customers that even know they have a PAP until I tell them, so layouts are left up to me.  If I feel strongly about a layout that brings a pin close to a hole I tell them it will void the warranty and let them decide, but most times I just modify the layout to either move the pin away from the hole or drill it out completely (again, if I decide to drill it out completely I discuss the decision with the customer and let him decide if that's OK).  --  JohnP




jls