Author Topic: How Do You Fix League Bowling? (Read 4558 times)

txbowler · « **on:** February 11, 2011, 05:31:34 AM »

Here's the points you have to remember:

1) All bowlers of all averages want to be able to win or be competitive in the league

2) The league will pay money (no recreational trophy leagues)

3) Bowlers will be allowed to bowl with their friends, wives, girlfriends. No average caps, minimums team averages or draft leagues.

Basically you have been hired by a bowling center to fill their house with leagues year after year.The 160 average teams will quit if the 220 average teams always win. The 220 average teams will quit if the handicappers always win. Where is the magic balance that keeps everyone as happy as possible and the complaining to a minimum.

Let's hear how you are going to do it.

milorafferty · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:39:05 PM »

I'll just wave my magic wand and everyone will be happy?

The Ballreviews Ignore User feature, Learn it, Love it, Live it!

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:58:11 PM »

No such thing, I'm afraid. Problem is, nobody wants "fair", even if we knew how to make it. Everyone wants the table tilted to their favor.

One thing you quickly learn when dealing with the public, you will NEVER make everyone happy, no matter what you do. You could give away a million dollars to everyone that comes in, and at least one jerk would complain you weren't giving out two million.

It's a pessimistic view, I'll agree, but what I see from society tells me that's the way it is, and not the other way around.

9~ Internet Tough Guy and
Cyberspace Sheep Lover

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2011, 02:36:11 PM »

Remove money from the game and then you will have only the real true bowlers..

Just give free practice or discount practive on those who bowl...

Money is evil... :-)

2 Fingers 4 Life
I Am The 3 Fingers Nightmare

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2011, 02:51:42 PM »

Task:
-"Basically you have been hired by a bowling center to fill their house with leagues year after year.The 160 average teams will quit if the 220 average teams always win. The 220 average teams will quit if the handicappers always win. Where is the magic balance that keeps everyone as happy as possible and the complaining to a minimum."

1st: Visit all the local HIGH SCHOOL's. Talk to the Principle and try to get them to set up a schedule that would have kids bowl at a discount after school. Must have school work with ally to have bus transportation to/from bowling. Perhaps get permission to talk with classes to get kids interested!

2nd: Create fliers to be placed in nearby Bowling Allies to announce creation of leagues. Define weekly fees and make bowling lines at cheap as house will allow. Have leagues defined as SOCIAL with 100% handicap. Specify Prize fund based on 16 teams!

3rd: Get email addresses from other leagues (this house and others) and send flyer's announcing new leagues as defined in 2.

4th: Create posters that can be placed in neighborhood stores (and our Center) announcing LEAGUES STARTING as defined in 2.

5th: If no PRO SHOP in center try to get one opened!

That would be a start!

spiders2283 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2011, 08:12:53 PM »

beer

"Bowling is like sex...it's only fun if you're doing it"

Tex · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2011, 08:57:44 PM »

We had a pretty powerful fix there for a while. Or seemed like it, didn't we Txbowler. We took a league that had shrunk to maybe 8 three man teams and built it back to 16- 5 men. We added a team sweeper last night at first. Then increased prize fund, then the cherry that had them lining up. Big strike shot pots generating thousands of additional dollars the final night. We have guys driving from all around Dallas out east to bowl. We have over a dozen regional pro's and tour members subbing. Man what happened. Economy? We have fought to keep the 14 teams, though in a 16 lane house not a bad number. Now you think thats only 10 guys less, but we have lost 10 to 20 per year the last couple and just replaced them with new guys.

The goose that laid the golden egg became tarnished. First some teams seem to not get enough tickets drawn and they even won the league. Accusations of cheating get flung around. Then the managers team wins all the big money and more accusations. So, this year the bowlers voted on who draws tickets and we will see who gets upset this time. Same game that brought them in, has ran them off.

That reminds you of the other argument in some leagues. Handicap was and is figured the same as maybe since the league was started in the 1960's. Some of us have bowled this league since back in the 80's and has always been 80% of team average difference. Works for us, but garuntee the teams at the bottom might have a different opinion. Mine and Txbowlers teams have won this league multiple times over the years so we might be the wrong ones to ask. We don't bowl on the same team now, but have in the past and bowl tournaments together now.

I would love to own a bowling center, but honestly would just use old recipes of good, consistent lane conditions. A mix of types of leagues and try to offer good service. Might do a mix of handicaps and maybe bowlers would find a league that fits what they are looking for. I would love for the Classic to be scratch, but betting if that ever happened we would loose half the bowlers,so that isn't happening. Don't see any magic bullets or league bowling and USBC membership would not continue to decline every year.

Roll with 900 Global.

Made in Texas!

nutsforbowling · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2011, 05:19:49 AM »

Zanatos1914 wrote on 2/11/2011 3:36 PM:
Remove money from the game and then you will have only the real true bowlers..

Just give free practice or discount practive on those who bowl...

Money is evil... :-)

2 Fingers 4 Life
I Am The 3 Fingers Nightmare

Bingo!!!! Anytime money is involved someone wants the "edge". Doesn't matter if first place is one dollar and last is 99 cents, money corrupts.

i say you he dead!!!!!!!!!!!!

MrPerfect · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2011, 11:14:20 AM »

I just wish every shot had to be sport compliant. I would feel more of a sense of accomplishment, and a connection between tournaments and league. Alas, this will never happen and would kill bowling.

mainzer · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2011, 11:26:50 AM »

This is a great point,

Wouldnt need the challenge patterns toughening up a THS is easy, take oil off the heads and put it farther down lane without changing pattern length, Pearl balls will go to long and stronger stuff wil be to early, put 4 more units outside of ten, less free hook right, averages will fall.

The Omnipotent wrote on 2/12/2011 7:59 AM:
Simple. Handicap is set at 116%. Period. Then have signs everywhere telling people to check their ego at the door. A fair but tough shot will be put down, something like Kegel Challenge series. Good teams will have to shut their mouth and bowl to win. No complaining about the amount of pins the bad team got against them if they lose. Bad teams need to shut their mouth when (or if) they beat the good team, remembering the pins they got against the good team.

"Stupid is as stupid does. And you sure do a lot!"

"Complexity lay within the artistry of execution"

+++Henry Zou+++

Founding FatherBR Inquisition
MainzerPower

brett_dubbin · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2011, 12:22:46 PM »

Personally I think every scratch, and every league with money involved should be sport compliant, thats a big start. Around here there are way too many guys averaging 235-245 in the easier houses in scratch money leagues, theres no point in even trying brackets and jackpots in these leagues cause you gotta shoot 1000 for 4 just to finish second a few... high game at least you can win with a 260, but not often... but when I go to tourneys with these same guys and they put out harder stuff, they average like 210 or less and its a lot more fair.

I think 80% handicap is good for handicap leagues, thats how most are here, and for the most part its a good mix of average and good teams at the top, its all about who bowls more consistently over their averages with 80%, 100% is way unfair for good teams, I was in a league with 100% and our team finished last cause we gave up 200 pins per game every week.

Discounted practice for league bowers, yeah! I used to practice at least 2 times a week plus my 3 leagues, I don't even bother to practice anymore because I cant freakin afford it, at least give me 2 dollars a game at the least, I mean ill come shoot 5 games for 10 bucks to work on some things, but no its like 3.50-4 a game and it costs me barely more than that for league for 4 games, and I wonder why I don't have any consistency, oh yeah, cause I cant afford to practice even though I create revenue by bowling 2 leagues at the house.

I think those 3 things would be a good start, at least in this area for leagues, believe it or not, the majority of the big number guys here, like challenging shots, and still win out on them more often than not because they are legitimately good enough to bowl regionals, and all that stuff, we have a pretty strong bowling area in my opinion.

Just Keeping it Real!

Steven · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2011, 08:00:55 PM »

The Omnipotent wrote on 2/12/2011 5:28 PM:
Yeah, it would be a bitch if you still bowled on a THS. Tougher shots should let the cream rise to the top. 80% is a joke. It's amazing how many people are brainwashed into thinking that's a fair percentage. It aint but as the old saying goes: Caveat emptor which is latin for there's a sucker born every minute.

Actually, that ridiculous 116% recommendation by the USBC is the joke. It's simplistic beyond belief, not taking into account that many handicap leagues are made up of lower average bowlers who increasingly improve during the year. Giving bowlers of this profile 116% is highway robbery. Handicap is imperfect at best, and you have to look at the league profile to come up with the appropriate number. That means appropriate handicap will vary from 80% to 100%.

Remember, the USBC is a dying organization that will do anything to stay alive and remain relevant. They'll recommend 116% if it brings in new bowlers and gives them some sense of accomplishment over more experienced players. Keep these recommendations in perspective.

The most 'fair' system available that's practical and implementable is capped scratch. While not perfect, it's far more equitable than handicap. The problem is that most bowlers run and hide when they hear the word 'scratch' in any context. I don't expect that will change any time soon.

Cbjdc · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2011, 08:22:51 PM »

Here is my two cents and I have had this experience. We tried this for one season and actually got very good feedback.

1. Change the HDCP to 100% of 300- Essentially making it even. But given the teams who are 160 avg more of a chance to win.

2. Change the lane condition from a bumper bowling scenario to something more of a challenge and then allternate. Try the Red, White, and Blue Patterns.

3. This makes the league not only fair for all skill levels, adds challenge to your scratch bowlers, keeps teams from complaining.

However, it trully comes down to how the bowling center staff handles complaints and also what the current league condition is. If the shot has been walled up for years its really difficult to change. See the article in BJ this month about this.

txbowler · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2011, 08:47:43 PM »

I have to disagree with the lower average bowlers improving based on my experience. I have been bowling in the same leagues for going on 7+ years now.

The 170 average bowlers average 170-180 year after year. Same thing for the 180 bowlers and the 190 bowlers and the 200 bowlers. Once a year you get 1 or 2 bowlers who improve and move up to next level. Or a 210 average bowler drills a magic ball that gets him to 220. In fact, the teams are always looking for the young fresh bowler with basic skills that just started bowling so that they can work with him and take his average from 185 to 200, but those only come along every 2-3 years. The hot shot stud junior bowlers already average 210-220 before they start bowling adult leagues so they are not going to improve from HDCP. So where is this improvement from the handicap bowlers supposedly coming from? I don't see it.

Part of it, I believe, is our egos. Us 220 scratch bowlers cannot stand it when Joe Blow Once a Week Smith 180 average happens to carry a few brooklyns and shoots a 220 scratch game and then you add in his HDCP. And then he talks trash and rubs it in our faces that he beat us. I think that is part of the true problem.

Edited by txbowler on 2/12/2011 at 9:49 PM

Steven · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2011, 08:48:50 PM »

The Omnipotent wrote on 2/12/2011 9:28 PM:
With all due respect, the higher average bowlers can improve also. And I truly doubt anyone here has bowled in a 116% handicap league (including myself), so any naysaying about it doe not have real evidence behind the negativity.

That's true in some cases, but most bowlers who reach the 215-220+ range usually plateau wherever they land. The higher the average, the progressively more difficult it is to make further improvements. In my scratch league, you can go back 5 years on league sheets and see most of the bowlers are seasoned and have remained fairly consistent. That's not surprising.

On the other hand, bowlers in the low to mid 100's have lots of opportunity to improve with much less effort. I don't think many will dispute this. Again, giving 116% handicap to bowlers of this profile who are gradually improving is just plain simplistic and stupid. However, I wouldn't argue that there are many handicap leagues where lower average bowlers just want to drink and play cards between shots -- there isn't any desire or real ability to get better. Higher handicaps (90-100%) in these situations makes sense. The message is that every situation is different.

Author Topic: How Do You Fix League Bowling? (Read 4558 times)

txbowler

How Do You Fix League Bowling?

milorafferty

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

9andaWiggle

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

Zanatos1914

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

JOE FALCO

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

spiders2283

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

Tex

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

nutsforbowling

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

MrPerfect

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

mainzer

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

brett_dubbin

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

Steven

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

Cbjdc

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

txbowler

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?

Steven

Re: How Do You Fix League Bowling?