Post by: Moon57 on August 03, 2008, 11:41:15 PM
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Moon
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So many questions, so little time but I''m having fun.
Post by: scotts33 on August 04, 2008, 07:48:17 AM
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Scott
Edited on 8/4/2008 7:48 AM
Post by: rackattack on August 04, 2008, 07:48:36 AM
Smooth and predictable on most lane conditions.
Not affected by carry down.
Easy to know when to bag it.
A perfect bench mark ball for the conditions I encounter.
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It's all about the X
Post by: Gazoo on August 04, 2008, 07:56:58 AM
Post by: Pat Patterson on August 04, 2008, 08:54:18 AM
There are varying degrees of particle loads(i.e. light/low load, medium load and heavy load), so particle is still and always will have a place in most bowlers' arsenals.
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Pat Patterson
Post by: Bigmike on August 04, 2008, 09:02:09 AM
quote:
I'd give my left nut for Global to release a consistent reading pearl particle, similar to the AMF velocity or Ebonite Angular One....
Don't give that thing away yet. Angular One was not a particle pearl.
I have the Shift and Secret Agent. Both are good for varying types of conditions especially some of the PBA/Sport type patterns. My Shift is great when I need the ball to still pick up the midlane, but there is slight OB right of my target. Secret is smooth in box finish, but can be taken down to make a more aggressive move especially on the wet stuff.
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Mike Craig-Columbus, OH
Post by: AngloBowler on August 04, 2008, 10:09:44 AM
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Reporting from England
Post by: dicnic on August 04, 2008, 10:19:43 AM
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Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 04, 2008, 10:22:06 AM
My best heavy oil ball ever....Track Spell....high rg particle!
I guess particles are still it! For me!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: icefiction on August 04, 2008, 10:25:41 AM
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Post by: A_P_K on August 04, 2008, 10:26:09 AM
Other than that it's a NO, there isn't enough oil in these parts to warrant carrying one. When I do/did I usually have a tough time with over under and roll out.
I just don't think I match up well with them, pearl particles on the other hand I absolutely love.
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With every action, there comes consequence
Used to be known as Pin_Krusher or Divine_Dragon
Post by: Grayson on August 04, 2008, 10:27:08 AM
My MAchine is my out off ball when I get somewhere I don't know the lanes and my C+ is my beast (sanded to 500 it is my working horse on oil)
I have only one "pure" reactive right now and the other ball I carry is plastic
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Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson
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Edited on 8/4/2008 10:28 AM
Post by: booyakashah69 on August 04, 2008, 10:47:00 AM
Post by: icefiction on August 04, 2008, 10:48:01 AM
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Post by: NJStroker on August 04, 2008, 11:43:35 AM
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Im so glad people are brainwashed to think that TRACK sucks. And its even funnier when im carrying with my TRACK ball and they're going flat ten with their BRUNSWICK ball.
Post by: noturcuzin on August 04, 2008, 11:47:26 AM
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CHRIS FARLEY:1964-1997
JOHN CANDY:1950-1994
JOHN BELUSHI:1949-1982
JIM MORRISON:1943-1971
"NO RESPECT, I GET NO RESPECT."-the great Rodney Dangerfield
Post by: six pack on August 04, 2008, 11:57:03 AM
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The harder I try the harder they fall
Post by: Brickguy221 on August 04, 2008, 12:05:46 PM
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: Jesse James on August 04, 2008, 02:08:16 PM
My Mystic and my Triumph. Smooth reactions off the dry, regardless of oil volume.
I also have a great love for my Fantasy X (solid particle) and my ShockZone,(sold to me by Lucky Lefty) solid particle. Both of which I use in tournament play, on a regular basis.
So I will probably always use a particle ball of some type.
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Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.
Some days you're the bug some days you're the windshield.
Post by: shelley on August 04, 2008, 03:11:55 PM
I, personally, really like particle covers. My Yeah Baby is the best ball I've ever owned and it's got a high-load particle cover.
The only manufacturer that's really shunning particle covers is Ebonite and their subsidiaries. Storm and Rotogrip still make particle balls, Lanemasters and Visionary both have several high-load covers in their lineup, Brunswick typically has a high-load particle ball in their mid-priced line, if not a few low-load ones as well. Today's covers are very strong and some have a lot of mid-lane read comparable to a typical particle ball but in the end, particles are different and may work better than plain reactives in some cases. If you want to offer the widest range of cover choices you can to help bowlers match up to something, you need to offer a few particle balls.
SH
Post by: Gazoo on August 04, 2008, 03:29:47 PM
Quote
Is "needing" a particle ball seen as some sort of handicap? "How many bowlers really need one?" makes it sound like those of us who use particle equipment have some handicap that ordinary resin equipment cannot solve./quote]
Makes it sound like we are the Forest Gumps of bowling doesn't it. Last time I pulled out my Big Time Sanded, bowler looked at me a stated,"I don't need a sponge" I thanked him for his donation later!
Post by: shelley on August 04, 2008, 03:41:05 PM
quote:
Makes it sound like we are the Forest Gumps of bowling doesn't it. Last time I pulled out my Big Time Sanded, bowler looked at me a stated,"I don't need a sponge" I thanked him for his donation later!
Nevermind the fact that there are particle and resin balls available for every oil condition out there. You have your dull, high load particle sponges on the shelf next to your dull, super-strong resins (try playing on a pair with four old men throwing 1000-grit BWBs down the lane and tell me that ball isn't a sponge). You've got polished light-load particle pearls next to polished resin pearls for medium and lighter oil patterns. While particles may have been, really, the only choice for heavier conditions, that's definitely not the case anymore.
I'll take a pair full of Shifts or Ambushes over a pair full of Wizards and Bites any day of the week.
SH
Post by: Lillen on August 04, 2008, 03:47:22 PM
quote:
My Yeah Baby is the best ball I've ever owned and it's got a high-load particle cover.
Yeah Baby
Coverstock Type: Diamond Particle
Hook Potential: 8.5 (Scale 10)
Box Finish: Matte
Particle Load: Light
RG: 2.62
DRG: 0.05
Ave. Flare Potential: 6.25
Hardness: 72-74
Color: Orange/ Gold Swirl
Edited on 8/4/2008 3:49 PM
Post by: joeschmoe on August 04, 2008, 03:59:02 PM
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Hey Steve,hold on.I've gotta go get another pitcher...
Post by: On Fire on August 04, 2008, 04:15:47 PM
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Post by: shelley on August 04, 2008, 04:24:04 PM
quote:quote:
My Yeah Baby is the best ball I've ever owned and it's got a high-load particle cover.
Yeah Baby
Particle Load: Light
I'll see your BR web page and raise you a Legends marketing flyer (http://"http://marketing.lanemasters.com/Retired%20Balls/Legends_YeahBaby/Leg_YB_Sat_Flyer.pdf").
SH
Edited on 8/4/2008 4:24 PM
Post by: Grayson on August 04, 2008, 04:38:06 PM
quote:quote:quote:
My Yeah Baby is the best ball I've ever owned and it's got a high-load particle cover.
Yeah Baby
Particle Load: Light
I'll see your BR web page and raise you a Legends marketing flyer (http://"http://marketing.lanemasters.com/Retired%20Balls/Legends_YeahBaby/Leg_YB_Sat_Flyer.pdf").
SH
Edited on 8/4/2008 4:24 PM
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Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson
(\_/)
(x_x)
c(')(')
Unoffical Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Hot Water Bath - instructions and experience (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=199058&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5")
Bowling lessons and tips VIDEOS - VERY GOOD! (http://"http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=BowltechBowlingTips&p=r")
Post by: streamline on August 04, 2008, 06:24:27 PM
Now I don't see conditions that would warrant it in my "main three" (three main reactives I carry) but I could see it to be very feasible for the tournament bowler to want to have one in the bag.
Post by: BigWillyStyle on August 04, 2008, 06:34:08 PM
Morich Onslaught (Particle Pearl)
Columbia300 Flipside Wired (Particle Pearl)
Visionary Purple Ice Executioner (Particle Pearl)
Visionary Granite Gargoyle (Particle)
Visionary Midnight Scorcher (Particle)
Mutant Joker (Particle Pearl)
All in all, I'd say, yes, my arsenal includes particle covers. They just seem to give me a great read of the lanes (the particle pearls) and awesome advantage in the soup (solid particle covers)...but then again, I do need all the help I can get!
Big Willy Style
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Just my $0.02 so take it for what the Foreign Exchange values it at!
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Post by: TWOHAND834 on August 04, 2008, 06:36:38 PM
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Steven Vance
Pro Shop Operator
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: srlunatic on August 04, 2008, 06:47:46 PM
I am down to one (RG Mystic) and that is for a certain spot in my arsenal.
I am around 17mph with good revs so with surface adjustments I can get very near particle results with resin. The Cell and Pluto are like that for me....get the smoothness of particle and the oil handling capability, but I get more versitility when faced with higher volumes of oil or longer lengths. Now I love my Mystic but it doesn't see a ton of action but when I can get a game or two out of it I love it.
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“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.â€
Post by: MTD300 on August 04, 2008, 06:49:34 PM
Post by: AdrianS on August 04, 2008, 06:53:23 PM
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Time for some REAL bowling!!!
Post by: baltimora on August 04, 2008, 10:39:01 PM
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Post by: six pack on August 04, 2008, 10:44:36 PM
quote:
Phenom and Phenom Unleashed still get a workout from time to time, oh there's an NIB particle Spike Hammer sitting in my local shop too hmmmm.......
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Time for some REAL bowling!!!
the Phenom is an incredible ball!
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The harder I try the harder they fall
Post by: scotts33 on August 04, 2008, 11:01:38 PM
quote:
Folks that need a particle ball, probably need bowling lessons.
Thanks bullred. I am signed up with Mike Shady Aug. 15th. Maybe he can help me.
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Scott
Post by: Lillen on August 04, 2008, 11:20:32 PM
quote:
I'll see your BR web page and raise you a Legends marketing flyer.
SH
Ok, my bad...
Post by: DON DRAPER on August 05, 2008, 06:22:34 AM
Post by: Spike2112 on August 05, 2008, 06:59:05 AM
Spike
Post by: Dan Belcher on August 05, 2008, 07:02:58 AM
quote:
Can anybody give me an example of the "pros" using the high load particle balls on their longer oil patterns.
quote:You've got two conflicting things in here. You point out specifically "high load particle" at first, but then talk about just "particle" balls in general. Which is it? If you count any particle balls at all, I've seen Walter Ray Williams Jr. throwing a particle pearl Awesome Revs as recently as a year ago on a variety of oil patterns. I remember Randy Pederson shooting 279 on the 50 foot TOC pattern with a Storm Fear Factor (medium load particle) a few years ago, and Norm Duke used the Secret Agent (light load particle solid/pearl hybrid) and Shift (particle pearl) to win back-to-back majors this year on longer and/or heavier volume patterns.
Folks that need a particle ball, probably need bowling lessons.
And something to bear in mind is that the pros usually have very clean backends since they double-strip the lanes, etc. They can generate plenty of backend reaction even on long patterns thanks to this. On the other hand, when you go to a house that doesn't strip the backends but once a week and decides to run a heavier volume shot, particle might come in handy.
(And for what it's worth, I'm not even a big particle fan even though I'm speed dominant. The only thing I have right now with any particle in it is an Awesome Revs, and it's gotten to be condition-specific for me since the particles have started to wear down and it's reacting more and more like a very strong pearl)
Post by: shelley on August 05, 2008, 07:05:43 AM
quote:
Can anybody give me an example of the "pros" using the high load particle balls on their longer oil patterns. All I see are shiny balls being used, to get a reaction on the backend. What little experience I have had with particle is that they hook early, and die, just what they were designed to do, to combat dry backends. Folks that need a particle ball, probably need bowling lessons.
Osku Polermaa used a Big Blue on the US Open telecast he made. Patrick Allen used a Big Blue Pearl at the Masters. While he didn't use it on TV, I believe the BrunswickInsiders blog mentioned that Sean Rash used a polished Goliath (Mammoth?) at the Baltimore stop he won. It was a Cheetah pattern and he used the high-load particle ball to control over/under. WRW has used Phenoms and Rule GP2s on several occasions and regularly used Morich particle balls, though I don't know the particle loading on them.
Keep in mind, though, that most PBA-registered manufacturers aren't making high-load particle balls. The Brunswick Mammoth is the primary example now. No high-load particles from Storm and certainly none from Ebonite. Visionary and Lanemasters are still making high-load particle balls that are reasonably popular but they're not PBA-registered.
SH
Post by: rackattack on August 05, 2008, 07:34:26 AM
quote:
What little experience I have had with particle is that they hook early, and die,
That could be the problem here.Little experience.
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It's all about the X
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 05, 2008, 09:41:34 AM
As to particles I love them (especially that awesome revs) but in a way agree wtih Deadbait....they are for when there are backends. Because frankly in true carrydown or heavy oil and oil in the back they are slower off the spot.
The reason being the particles seperate the ball from the lane surface. To get more midlane they are GREAT! And fantastic for many many league experiences with heavy midlane oil and cleanish backends. I do love them!
On really really really oily conditions I have had better luck with reactives because I have to point on the left on these conditions and the reactives do not force me to aim away from the pocket to allow for the midlane that low rg particles create for me(then they don't have enough backend) on those conditions.
Besides reactives I use one particle ball on super heavy oil and it is a light load one and a medium high rg ball. A track spell! It allows me to point and must have a very light load as it provides a big almost reactive backend!
Note if there is dry to the sides (ie a league type condition) low rg high load particles like a Reaction Roll or a Morich Mayhem really kill!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Edited on 8/5/2008 10:57 AM
Post by: rackattack on August 05, 2008, 10:37:58 AM
Particles have their time and place,but that is true of any formulation.
I could not build an arsonal of particle balls but I would not consider my arsonal complete without one either.
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It's all about the X
Post by: leftyinsnellville on August 05, 2008, 10:49:32 AM
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220...221...whatever it takes.
Post by: dizzyfugu on August 05, 2008, 11:25:27 AM
Particle has disappeared from the high end balls - but I am not sold on the idea that this is the end for hard and microscopic additions to the coverstock that enhance friction with mechanical means. Friction from porous reactives comes at a price: oil absorbtion and texture maintenance. While high friction coverstocks show great performance when fresh, the maintenance needs become ridiculous - unless you are the person to buy any new "supa hooka" ball each season to discard it after 50 games (when it might die, anyway). Such cases are rumored to exist.
I think that particle, coupled with some less bling coverstock base offers similar (probably not the same, since it is a different technology) performance in oil, and the extra traction that a carbide particle load adds to a coverstock, is IMHO hard to beat when things get spotty. That's why I LOVE my Fuze Eliminator - you will have to peel it from my cold, stiff fingers, or it will fall apart.
If you want control, particle is IMHO the ticket to success - not a high friction reactive sponge coverstock. It will probably even last longer - but that's nothing the indutry cares much about, I think.
That's why I invested into a NS2 as an oil ball in my arsenal, not a "modern" reactive piece for oil. Well, tomorrow I'll see if my high hopes in particle were justified
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Post by: earlthepearle on August 05, 2008, 11:35:19 AM
If anything, just carry a light load particle in the bag...you never know.
Here in my area....most bowling centers will change the THS every 2 or 3 weeks....Granted, its still a THS after the adjustment...but you DO notice the change....More oil on the edges and the mids.
With these changes, a particle is a must with me
Earl
Post by: dizzyfugu on August 05, 2008, 02:07:25 PM
quote:
If anything, just carry a light load particle in the bag...you never know.
Yup! Can definitively save the day
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DizzyFugu (http://"http://www.putfile.com/dizzyfugu/") - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: baltimora on August 05, 2008, 02:52:55 PM
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Post by: Moon57 on August 05, 2008, 05:26:03 PM
Shelly, I didn't mean my question the way you took it. I could have said, how many people feel lane conditions warrant carrying a particle ball? To me both questions mean the same. I am surprised at the amount of responses though. I asked the question initially because I don't see many people using a particle ball. I've had some good scores at one house using a 2000 abralon Mammoth. I've also got a Sidewinder I'm trying different surfaces on to see if I can fit it in someplace. I may be joining a modified sport league in the fall and might need a particle to fill my arsenal out.
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Moon
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So many questions, so little time but I'm having fun.