BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: apocalyptic_rabbit on May 24, 2008, 08:57:57 PM
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I have been offered / asked if I would be interested in taking over thoe local proshop.
Currently it is run by 1 guy, who is technically a center employee, he only does the ball work, drilling, plugging, resurface, etc. sales are handled by the center.
Now, when I was given the offer I was told could would be taking over the sales, as truly there isn't much in terms of demand where I am.
Still, this would be done as a side project for me. I would be keeping my day job and spending my evenings / weekends in the shop. any concerns for time are slim considering this is what the current guy does.
No to my question:
With taking this over, how much should I be expecting to pay for a the tools in the shop
it includes a 15 year old drill press, scale, spinner, drill bits. it's pretty much fully stocked, but outdated to say the least..
what would you pay?
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In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Paradigm, Tropical, Special Agent, T-Road Pearl
Lane 1:
Cobalt Bomb
Ebonite
V2 Strong
Brunswick:
Target Zone
This is our Paradigm
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My honest two cents....whatever price is it, it would be too expensive to be a hobby/side project. I would say if your gun-ho about running a proshop, an old drill press, old stock, bad location is about the worst decision you could make. also, adults are very skeptical about a kid working on their equipment.
Just to give you some inside info.....
these are appox prices for NEW equipment
Retail Location - $600/1500 in a center
Drill Press - $1500
Jig $700
Vacuum System 800 for a nice built in, 60 for a shop vac.
Do-Do Kaufman Scale - $850
Spinner - $400
Drill Bits $800 (maybe 300 on ebay)
measure devices $300
Plug Kit with colors $200
Valentino Bowling Polishes $60 dollars (lol, thought I'd throw it in the price)
Sandpaper, polishes, abralon $200
Computer $300
Merchant Services $15.00 to 45.00 a month (if you want to accept credit cards)
vinyl signage - $300
good name - PRICELESS
logo $1500 for a good one
Stock $6000
advertising $200 a month
office supplies (pens, paper, grease pencils, windex, paper towels) - $100 a month
there is alot of things people don't think about when they want to start a shop. The thing that usually makes me cringe is ordering shoes....because you know you will have to discount them after dexter brings out the new models and they have so many types. In my opinion and this is from a crazed bowler to a crazed bowler, before you make a leap into the proshop business, go over in your head a whole month of sales. think about how many people will come in/call/order a bowling ball....will you stock that bowling ball....what's your cost, what's your sale price, what happens if the customer does like the ball and blame you, what product are you going to stock? how do you know it will sell? are you going to offer coupons? what if business is slow and your take a huge loss keeping the shop open. are they buyers if you want out?
make a business plan.
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www.ValentinoBowling.com
makers of Snake Oil & Resurrection
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quote: "Now, when I was given the offer I was told could would be taking over the sales, as truly there isn't much in terms of demand where I am."
Why would you want to be the captain of a sinking ship? if there is no demand, there is no profit. If your are still gun-ho ask them for the monthly gross sales if it is under 2,000 a month slowly turn around and walk away.
-Kevin
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www.ValentinoBowling.com
makers of Snake Oil & Resurrection
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"Captain of a sinking ship"
partly it is a sinking ship because of the way it has been run for the last 10 years.
There is no advertising done for anything new, the drilling prices for anything shop wise is WAY under priced. 20 bucks to plug and drill a ball is ridiculous.
The shops current stock would be given to me, and then I would owe the center the cost price that they paid back, me keeping the profit.
I live in a town of 100,000 people, we have 2 centers, 1 shop, and the current guy, who has no one coming in after him is 80 years old and on his way out.
I know is a sinking ship, I feel with proper prices, and better services it won't have to be.
Sales will be better if they have someone in the shop that can actually sell somebody a ball, a 16 year old kid who is making 8 dollars an hour whether he sells you the ball or not does not give a damn what the RD diff, is or what lanes your gonna be throwing on.
So I would have a monopoly on the market seeing as I am ATLEAST 4 hours away from anywhere else to get a ball drilled.
so for a new shop you are roughly calling $8500
about 1500 of which is not really a cost for just the shop. so 6000 new. given the age of some of the stuff, 2000.
with say 2000 for upgrades to the equipment itself.
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In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Paradigm, Tropical, Special Agent, T-Road Pearl
Lane 1:
Cobalt Bomb
Ebonite
V2 Strong
Brunswick:
Target Zone
This is our Paradigm
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Find out if the center is willing to take payments on the stuff already there, if so great.
Also, during this summer ( that is if you decide to take over) work diligently on giving the shop a make-over, a new coat of paint to start with, and it would be in your best interest to go to a coaching class ( or 2). Also, get in touch with ball manufacturers, have them send you some banners to hang in the shop. Let the bowlers see that there is something new and exciting. Come up with a catchy name too
If there are summer leagues get out there an introduce yourself, if it is as you say say you might be the only ball driller in your home town, let the bowlers know your are there and willing to talk and help out.
Once you get established find you customer base, is it mid level equipment that will sell the best or high-end, or ven plastics, but whatever it is get your hands on all the new stuff.
Best thing that you could do is learn everything you can, and don't be afraid to experiment on some old equipment that might be hanging around. Get a subscription to "Bowlers Journal", read it, than have it out so your customers can look at it.
Ask the owners of the center what would be fair to them, be up front with them and get their input on your possible changes, paint, whatever. If they are kept up to date with whats going on, they will feel like their decision to get you in there was a good decision.
quote:
"Captain of a sinking ship"
partly it is a sinking ship because of the way it has been run for the last 10 years.
There is no advertising done for anything new, the drilling prices for anything shop wise is WAY under priced. 20 bucks to plug and drill a ball is ridiculous.
The shops current stock would be given to me, and then I would owe the center the cost price that they paid back, me keeping the profit.
I live in a town of 100,000 people, we have 2 centers, 1 shop, and the current guy, who has no one coming in after him is 80 years old and on his way out.
I know is a sinking ship, I feel with proper prices, and better services it won't have to be.
Sales will be better if they have someone in the shop that can actually sell somebody a ball, a 16 year old kid who is making 8 dollars an hour whether he sells you the ball or not does not give a damn what the RD diff, is or what lanes your gonna be throwing on.
So I would have a monopoly on the market seeing as I am ATLEAST 4 hours away from anywhere else to get a ball drilled.
so for a new shop you are roughly calling $8500
about 1500 of which is not really a cost for just the shop. so 6000 new. given the age of some of the stuff, 2000.
with say 2000 for upgrades to the equipment itself.
--------------------
In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Paradigm, Tropical, Special Agent, T-Road Pearl
Lane 1:
Cobalt Bomb
Ebonite
V2 Strong
Brunswick:
Target Zone
This is our Paradigm
--------------------
Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
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Some other things that come to mind:
Factor in the cost of a lawyer, and an accountant and insurance.
You need to incorporate or become an LLC.
You need to establish a PERSONAL AND a BUSNIESS relationship with the local distributor(s) and the rep(s) that services your shop.
You need to refurbish/redcorate the shop. Probably part of the ressons it does little business.
You need to have a back-up fund to finance the shop for 8 - 12 months while you get established. 80% of new businesses fail in the first 12 months. You need to business plan to take you through that hard first year.
There is no magic you also need to plan to work your regular job, come to the shop, and go home to sleep. Weekends you will spend 12 - 15 hours in the shop. If you plan on anything else, you will fail. There's no substitute for hard work. A personal business is VERY hard work. If you like to bowl, bowl. If you want to establish a business in the first year, don't plan on bowling. This is not a way to get cheap balls.
And, ABOVE ALL, Good luck!!!
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Edited on 5/25/2008 10:23 AM
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Having just done this recently I can tell you to
1. list the current inventory. And you need to discount discontinued balls or those that are low sellers. So you cannot count every high performance ball there, at full wholesale price. Or else they'd not be there. Don't pay prime price for outdated stock.
2. Make sure all the drilling equipment is free and clear of loans.
3. Make sure of what you will owe the center, in the means of rent.
4. take into account how long the prior owner was in the shop and how much of his clinentel will be staying with you. If you are in a center, then you have a good opportunity to gain new bowlers, while hopefully keeping existing customers. So the clientel base is not worth that much unless they've been there established for a while.
5. Make sure the existing owner does not have an outstanding account with your local distributor or any other distributor. If he/she does, then you could be liable for that debt if the previous owner does not clear the debt with the sale of the business. And of course once you give the money over, you have no control of how the previous owner disperses those monies.
6. You may need to engage a lawyer to that all previous debts are KNOWN and that measures are taken to ensure that those debts are cleared with the sale.
7. Make sure that the center is owned free and clear of land leases. If the land is leased, make sure you know how long that lease is. Because at the end of that lease you could be out to make way for new apartments. But you will still owe any loans you took out.
8. a used scale....$500 - 800. Spinner maybe $500 - $1000 if it an industrial spinner with water etc..... Don't pay for an isolated "Donkey" type spinner. They are personal spinners and not up to the task of pro shop type traffic. Drill bits can be sharpened but at a pretty high cost. Yet they are about $40 a piece.
Be aware that if they want to sell now.....they may want to sell even more in a month or so. I know this sounds cruel but if they need to sell they will need to sell even more in a month or two. And starting a pro shop in June is tough, its the slowest time of the year.
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DO NOT buy an existing business. This will open you up to prior debts. Start a new Pro Shop business and buy only equipment and inventory. If you need to buy all new equipment and start with the bare walls. The existing inventory's value is greatly reduced due to age and previous owners buying power. We just purchased a bowling center with it's pro shop included and as part of the transaction we purchased the inventory of the previous owner. The dollar amount was minor but he was at Classic Products dealer scale level which has the highest cost and not at the Gold or Platinum levels.
We ran a very successful part time Pro Shop in the Dallas area. I had a full time IT job and opened the shop at 5:30 and closed at 8:30. The center we were in opened at 3. There simply was not enough in the way of league bowlers to keep the shop open all day. Business showed up at 6:30 and was fairly heavy sometimes til 10. On average M&M Pro Shop was open 25 hours a week. The key was we were only open when there was business in the center. Our business model was geared correctly to the client base. First and foremost the Pro Shop was a business and not a hobby. We are professionals and run it that way. It will be very demanding. I have faxed orders late at night because I could not get them done during business hours. We ate a lot of late night dinners and snacked on the run. The bowling industry is trying to do away with hobbiest pro shops and raise the image of the pro shop. Unfortunately in many areas of the country centers are unable to support a pro shop full time and people do what they have to do.
Smash49
Chisholm Trail Lanes, Duncan Oklahoma and Coming Soon!!! Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop
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Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
www.strikingcatbowling.com
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Thats the catch, there really are no prior debts.
Any stock they keep they pay for up front, and then earn the omney back, so they OWN all of there stock.
The acutal ball driller is a center employee who is paid on a by the ball basis. and any work he does int erms of resurfacing . plug and drilling goes straight into his pocket.
so the center sees nothing of it now.
If I take it over, I am taking a split business and amalgmatting it.
My thought would be to offer the center a profit share. If I make nothing, they make nothing.
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In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Paradigm, Tropical, Special Agent, T-Road Pearl
Lane 1:
Cobalt Bomb
Ebonite
V2 Strong
Brunswick:
Target Zone
This is our Paradigm
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I would NOT offer the center a percentage of your profits. That would mean opening your books to someone else when you do not need to. Also depending on the center they may have no idea about what they are reading. You are also doing the center a service by providing for their customers. I would negotiate a low rent agreement. Things to remember are that you will be most likely repairing their ball damage and you might even put in that you will drill conventional drills for some have a ball programs. I drilled 20 have a ball program balls for free as my rent last month. Why? It brings customers into my shop that are in many cases getting a ball for the first time. They do not have bags or shoes and we have a chance at those sales. Also coaching lessons are available. The center will run the programs anyway and you can try to get $40 a ball drill charge but it may cause some issues. My out of pocket rent expense was zero. Another factor to consider is 9 payments 12 months lease. This type of lease will make it so that you do not have payments in the summer. Still the no rent barter agreement is the best if you can get it.
Smash49
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Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
www.chisholmtraillanes.com
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Sorry smash I am not following you with when you say a ball program... could you explain a little more?
its just a thought, like i said I haven't submitted a proposal to anyone yet, just bouncing ideas off those that are more knowledgeable
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In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Paradigm, Tropical, Special Agent, T-Road Pearl
Lane 1:
Cobalt Bomb
Ebonite
V2 Strong
Brunswick:
Target Zone
This is our Paradigm
-
quote:
Sorry smash I am not following you with when you say a ball program... could you explain a little more?
"Have-a-ball"/"get-a-ball" program.
Many centers run leagues where as part of the prize, everyone gets a free ball, UNDRILLED. Those balls have to be drilled. You, the house pro shop, usually has to drill them as part of any agreement/arrangement to run a shop on the premise. They can get to be a lot, depending on how many people in the league and how many leagues there are.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
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Dont know about proshop Prices Apocalyptic, but I have to say... That`s a hell of an arsenal you have...nice
Earl
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Charlest is correct. They can be a lot. Usually there are around 20 balls or so every 10 weeks to be drilled. Most are conventional White Dots, Maxims, and TZones. I charge for inserts and slugs if they want finger tip drilling and usually sell a bag, shoes, towels or other items at the same time. Most are really simple. You can set them up to be done on Saturdays before the shop normally opens. We opened our Irving shop at 4 on Saturdays. I would go in at 2 on a couple of Saturdays until I got them finished. You may also need to make arrangements with a few people that can not do Saturdays. Sounds weird but we were one of the few pro shops that were open at night on Saturday. We catered to the centers Cosmic Bowling and it worked rather well. I told the AMF Regional Manager I was going to be open for his Cosmic Bowling and I thought he was going to die!!! We even lit the shop up with 2 4ft black lights when we did close on Fridays and Saturdays.
Smash49
Coming Soon to Duncan Oklahoma! Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop!
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Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
www.chisholmtraillanes.com
Edited on 5/26/2008 4:44 PM
Edited on 5/26/2008 4:46 PM
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My center has never run a program like that.
so there is no issue there.
I do however like the idea of the 9 payments for a 12 month lease.
also if I do repairs and such for them I COULD use it towards taking it off of the rent...
keep the ideas coming guys...
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In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Paradigm, Tropical, Special Agent, T-Road Pearl
Lane 1:
Cobalt Bomb
Ebonite
V2 Strong
Brunswick:
Target Zone
This is our Paradigm
-
Lease--Do not purchase. Secondly, why would a 19 year old want to get
this involved in anything? Traditionally, there is very little money
to be made in the bowling industry--with a few exceptions. A large
percentage of posts on this site are about money, in one way or another.
Edited on 5/26/2008 10:25 PM
Edited on 5/26/2008 10:28 PM
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Cause I am not actually doing it for money. I am doing it for pure love of the sport. Cause if I don't then there is no one else willing to. And truly to better myself.
I got a steady job right now. great money, but it isn't something very fulfilling. Bowling is just about the only thing I love doing, and am willing to go out of my way to do..
why not put in a little more time into it and see what I can make out of it?
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In The Bag: http://www.putfile.com/rabbit69ca
Storm:
Paradigm, Tropical, Special Agent, T-Road Pearl
Lane 1:
Cobalt Bomb
Ebonite
V2 Strong
Brunswick:
Target Zone
This is our Paradigm
-
quote:
Thats the catch, there really are no prior debts.
You don't know that until you have a lawyer do a search. You don't know if the prior owner had their home and cars tied into payments made to this business. If they are in debt to their local distributor or not. If you buy that existing business, you also buy that debt. You also don't know if there are tax leins on the business or inventory existing in that location.
And NEVER operate a shop due to LOVE OF THE SPORT. You have to survive off this business (you have to make a living) and if you do not run it as such you will fail....its just a matter of time. You can love bowling as much as you want. But that will not pay your rent for the shop or your home mortgage (you probably don't have one of those yet) or apartment rent.
You have to take these responses in the good will they are given. But at `19 years old have you EVER been self sufficient? I ask this because at your age, most people your age are not exactly ready to fly on their own. And buying a business is a complicated process. It is NOTHING like working in a pro shop. Which you have not mentioned you have ever done.
I'm not kidding, you could inherit thousands of dollars of dept if you buy an existing business. Debt that you at 19, have not ever experienced before. And you never want to start a business at a negative operating cost.
A bad step here, at 19, could hurt your credit and financials for the next 20+ years.
Erin
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best advice i ever got was if you truly love the sport and want to enjoy it than dont go into proshop business cause u will get sick and tired of looking at balls and bowling
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show no mercy, kill the wounded, eat the dead
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Seems the more and more I get involved in other areas of the sport of bowling the less and less I actually get to bowl. I really like the other parts of the sport more. Things like being able to attend lectures with Carmen Salvino and Dick Weber in the class. Sitting down and talking with Bill Taylor about my book is so old it has turned chocolate brown.
The point is running a part time pro shop and working a full time job leaves little time for actually bowling. The good news is that there are many interesting things to do in the sport of bowling. I get to bowl 3 games a week! sometimes less sometimes more. Most of the time it is just 3 games. The knowledge that you can gain is truely amazing if you do things right.
Running a pro shop just because you like to bowl is normally going to fail. You need to love the sport of bowling AND understand and love the business of bowling. The toughest part will be getting the business knowledge. IBPSIA is working on this but it still needs some refining. There is a course called the Business of Pro Shop the Business. Also the HOTS Technical is a good place to look at. Even if you know how to do all the work a check on skills is good. Understanding margins, inventory controls, management relations etc etc. are also a must.
Smash49
P.S. We use Ebonite's Pro Shop Coordinator to tell us profit margins, cost, inventory levels, sales frequencies, and other information. Worth it's weight in gold.
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Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
www.chisholmtraillanes.com