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General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: n00dlejester on May 15, 2008, 12:31:40 PM

Title: How old is too old?
Post by: n00dlejester on May 15, 2008, 12:31:40 PM: So, I've seen a few different theories about older balls on modern lanes. My question is, how old is too old? Let's say you buy a nice new ball today, and don't get it drilled for 1, 2, 5, 10 years from now. When does the oil change enough that the balls performance gets affected? My oldest ball I'm using now is creeping up on 2 years old, and I don't see any performance difference at all. I've kept up with maintenance, get it sanded when it starts to look shiny; all that jazz. Assuming the cover doesn't absorb too much oil and maintenance is kept up, how long will I continue to see the same reaction?
Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: tenpin477 on May 15, 2008, 08:39:52 PM: A Ball is never too old. Its place in your arsenal may change over time, but its never old.

I recently took an X-Factor Deuce off my cousin, and its an amazing ball, and a few years old now.
Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: noturcuzin on May 15, 2008, 08:40:19 PM: i've had a blazing inferno for 4 years and it still performs like the day i got it. just keep cleaning it after every use and it should last a long time.
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: abrown on May 15, 2008, 08:41:57 PM: theres a guy that still throws the blue fab ball and avg. is 215 to 220 he has another one nib when that one dies he's had it 17 years.
Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: Locke on May 15, 2008, 08:48:52 PM: I don't think there is a specific too old. If the ball works its not too old.
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: cartman33 on May 15, 2008, 08:50:25 PM: i am still using one of my 2 columbia 300 pro hooks every week in league from 1992...smoothest pieces that i have ever owned on the house shot and they even work really well on shorter patterns when everyone else has over under, i get a nice consistent reaction off the dry....

old balls are like fine wine and cheese only better with age
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: dizzyfugu on May 16, 2008, 02:48:15 AM: IMHO, no ball is "too old". You can even score well today with a rubber ball, you just have to adjust your game and be able to read the lane. As a kind of self experience experiment, I got me recently a 1993 Blue Hammer, to see how I match up with this urethane piece and its usefulness on today's lanes. And all I can say: even though it does not move a lot like a porous reactive from today, it is still very effective. Instead of swinging the shot I must play it straight down, but it "works" and hits pretty hard. A little less room for error, due to the lower grip of the surface, but overall "enough" ball to have fun. I can understand why this piece ruled the PBA at its time, and then you realize how (and almost ridiculous) coverstock technology has evolved today.
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: six pack on May 16, 2008, 06:35:33 AM: I have an old Track Phenom that works better then anything else I've tried,the ball just carries everything and I have often asked myself why I bother useing anything else.I also have a storm thunderflash that works like new even though you can't see the logo on it anymore.
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: n00dlejester on May 16, 2008, 07:24:09 AM: quote:
IMHO, no ball is "too old". You can even score well today with a rubber ball, you just have to adjust your game and be able to read the lane. As a kind of self experience experiment, I got me recently a 1993 Blue Hammer, to see how I match up with this urethane piece and its usefulness on today's lanes. And all I can say: even though it does not move a lot like a porous reactive from today, it is still very effective. Instead of swinging the shot I must play it straight down, but it "works" and hits pretty hard. A little less room for error, due to the lower grip of the surface, but overall "enough" ball to have fun. I can understand why this piece ruled the PBA at its time, and then you realize how (and almost ridiculous) coverstock technology has evolved today.
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Very neat experiment, I must try that one time!

Taking these responses in mind, here's another question for you all: Let's say you buy a Cell right now, and don't drill it and just leave it. I think we can all agree that OOB the Cell can handle a good amount of oil. In how many years will the oil patterns change enough that the Cell is no longer a ball for heavy-ish oil and plays better on medium-ish oil?
Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: dizzyfugu on May 16, 2008, 07:30:31 AM: If I should make a bet, 5 year horizon would IMHO be plausible. I can remember when the original Inferno and Trauma were introduced - both were advertised as balls for medium to heavy conditions. From today's point of view, with slicker lane surfaces and more viscous oils, they are medium condition balls. Even oil balls from that time have (at least nominally) been overpowered by more potent balls and coverstocks.-
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: azguy on May 16, 2008, 07:34:39 AM: Last month we had a guy shoot 2- 300's in the same week with his Cuda C, his if I remember right is about 11-12 years old. Over the past year he's had several 270+'s with it, so for him at least, never to old.

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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: dizzyfugu on May 16, 2008, 07:43:11 AM: A friend of mine from my club uses a Piranha (green pearl) drilled label as his spare ball - but if he uses it as a strike ball, either on dry lanes or in training, he carries the world with it. It is very impressive to see what he can get out of this old and simple ball, just through release adjustments. Even on fresh lanes this old piece can look as if it goes sideways on the back end! No, ball is never "too old". It just depends on the player nad what he/she can do with it. In fact, I like to experiemnt with older pieces, because I have the feeling that I match better up with "last generation" coverstocks. I really am afraid to get a current high performnce piece, because I am afraid that it would be too aggressive to be useful for me and my slower game. That's also a reason why I tried the Blue Hammer
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: J_Mac on May 16, 2008, 07:49:00 AM: I've shot 300 with a ball that's 7+ years old. I've shot 300 with a ball that's less than 6 months old.

It's not the ball... it's the bowler.

IMHO, there is a big difference in a 9 year old ball that has 1000 games on it and one that was poured 9 years before it ever had a drill bit touch it though.
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: laddog54 on May 16, 2008, 08:39:57 AM: My brother Charles has shot 3 800 this year. 1st one with a urethane Ebonite, 2nd with a 50 year old Brunswick Black Diamond and the 3rd with a Roto SD-73 Classic. No ball is too old.
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: dizzyfugu on May 16, 2008, 08:42:13 AM: quote:

IMHO, there is a big difference in a 9 year old ball that has 1000 games on it and one that was poured 9 years before it ever had a drill bit touch it though.

That's true. Last year I shot a NIB Revolution Renegade through ebay - the ball is from 2000 and was in mint condition. After drilling it up it was not much of a ball, and I did not expect much from it. It had been very unstable at the break point, much over/under uissues, and it handled oil, esp. carrdown, poorly.
Nothing lose with it I decided to re-polish it (mine came with a good shine) - and all of a sudden this ugly green orb turned into one of my best balls for medium to medium-dry conditions. It is very predictable now, hooks sharply, it is a real winner - an awesome piece that will probably outperfom more modern balls. I was really amazed, and it seems that only the polish suffered through the long period of time, but not the coverstock material itself.

Despite this experience, we will have to see if modern coverstocks take so well to long storage times?
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: qstick777 on May 16, 2008, 08:44:59 AM: People in my league are using stuff that is 5+ years old. Older balls are the norm.

When I first started bowling (2004), my teammate was using a purple Rhino Pro and a Columbia300 Beast. Both were estimated to be from around 1992, and both were still functional. He actually still brings them out from time to time and they work just fine on our league shot. He doesn't recall ever really having any maintenance done on them, other than a resurface due to lane damage. I think they both still had the original finger inserts as well!

His brother started bowling with us a couple of years later and was using a Cuda/C from around the same time (I think they had bowled in a ball league). That ball worked (and still works) just fine.

They both have newer equipment (Black Widow, Angular One), but sometimes the older stuff works "better" - aka more reliable, more consistent.
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: dizzyfugu on May 16, 2008, 08:58:11 AM: quote:

They both have newer equipment (Black Widow, Angular One), but sometimes the older stuff works "better" - aka more reliable, more consistent.

Yup, exactly!
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: jd1319 on May 16, 2008, 04:22:56 PM: I know a guy who is still using an original black hammer, with a 205 average, and finished this last league shooting 750+. While balls do help, and combined with the BS lane conditions are responsible for the grossly inflated averages, even a rubber ball can still be great in the hands of a great bowler.
Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: leftehh- LG on May 16, 2008, 11:53:54 PM: if it strikes, it aint too old.. unless of course ur on staff then u need to throw the latest and greatest
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: Juggernaut on May 17, 2008, 12:11:08 AM: Shot a 756 with my original NitroR/2 just a few weeks ago, and it is quite old, 14 years I think. It is also a pin in with what we used to call a "block weight" drilling.
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: Scolai on May 19, 2008, 09:05:32 AM: I shot 300 in March with a Columbia Flipside Panic that I bought in 2004. I've averaged 227 since January with that ball.

Those ball-of-the-month bowlers can keep spending their money in the hopes of finding the "magic" ball. I've got better things to do with my money.
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Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: n00dlejester on May 19, 2008, 09:12:53 AM: quote:
I shot 300 in March with a Columbia Flipside Panic that I bought in 2004. I've averaged 227 since January with that ball.

Those ball-of-the-month bowlers can keep spending their money in the hopes of finding the "magic" ball. I've got better things to do with my money.
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)O(

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The owner of Ebonite loves you right now.

And speaking of all sorts of old balls, I found (yes, FOUND) an X-Factor Vertigo in great shape, and it fit my span and thumb perfectly. New inserts, and away I went. It was smooth as butter at 2000 after some maintenance, and fits very well under my Gravity Shift. Older technology proving very worthy, although not quite what it was built for originally.
Title: Re: How old is too old?
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 19, 2008, 09:16:13 AM: This post I took from a recent post here...all about oil extraction...

ie an overreactive new ball can become a smooth performer on a bouncy overreactive shot!

In most of these drilling sheets....brunswick in particular they talk about oil extraction to revive older balls.

They specifically state....if you like the reaction of an old ball on an overreactive shot....don't oil extract it....or the now stronger reaction will lower your scores.

I've seen witness of this. In a super overreactive poorly oiled house I bowl in we have a guy that has a beat up old TiBoss pearl! This thing is so beat up it almost looks like a solid.

This guy shot an 837 one night with an had the world to shoot at. 20 to 5, 15 to 13, 22 to 8. All strikes.

Many a 700 this guy would shoot also! All of a sudden his Dad gets him a Triple X factor. 465, 510, 535.....485.....back to the TourBoss pearl.

710....well you get the picture.

Keep the Vapor Zone and keep throwin it give thanks you have it....sounds perfect for your house!

It came from this

As to rubber balls...they are very smooth and treat super light volumes of oil as though it is the nicest medium shot you have ever seen....HOWEVER on the backs they have nothing if there is a sniff of carrydown!

As to the Panic talked about by Scolai....a smooth lower flare lower rg overreactive lane superstar!

REGards,

Luckylefty

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