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Author Topic: How to keep insert slick?  (Read 4125 times)

spatten

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How to keep insert slick?
« on: September 10, 2003, 07:28:28 PM »
Guys,

Looking for a suggestion to help get my thumb out.  I tend to have
moist hands that stick in the insert.  

We recently switched my inserts to urethane, and this did provide a nice slick
surface.  However after about several games on each ball the tackiness is back and I cannot get out clean. Any suggestions on how to get it slick again?

Last night I tried sprinkling soapstone on my thumb, but this only marginally helped for each shot and then had to be reapplied.

Thanks,
Scott
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charlest

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2003, 02:27:41 PM »
These are all a complete waste of time.

If the insert is getting tacky, it is getting dirty. CLEAN IT!! 91% drug-store alcohol is fine. Acetone from the hardware store the best.

Sand it, if and when necessary, with 320-400 grit and then put some acetone on a thin but absorbent material, like an old undershirt; use your pinky (it's th eonly finger thin enough when wrapped by the material) and swab the inside of the thumb. This will remove all the dirt (some may need slight rubbing, but never very much) and will make the urethane slightly soft. DO NOT TOUCH IT! Let it dry for 30-45 minutes; it will re-harden smooth and slick and perfectly clean.
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T-GOD

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2003, 03:41:32 PM »
Do not use rosin bags. Try "Forrest's Hand Conditioner". This is like the chalk used by pitchers and gymnast's. It is not sticky like rosin, it just dry's your hand.

Also, the vent hole is a good idea. Using black bowlers tape instead of white on the back of your thumbhole will help too. Hypafix tape will also help/work.

You should be able to come up with something that works out of all these suggestions. =:^D
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T-GOD

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2003, 03:47:57 PM »
One other thing. Sand your slug with a fine piece of sand paper, 600 grit, in an up and down fashion. Sanding discs sand in a circular motion and will leave ridges in the hole. Using fine sandpaper will remove the sanding lines and make the hole slicker. You can even wetsand the hole using fine sandpaper to make the hole slick. =:^D
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Brickguy221

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2003, 11:02:37 PM »
Use 1000 grit sandpaper. It will clean/slicken your hole and beings the 1000 grit is so fine, it will not enlarge thumb hole.
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star

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2003, 07:42:13 AM »
I put it on the spinner every time I clean it with the thumb hole pointing directly up.
Then I switch on making sure the hole is perfectly in the middle. I then get a piece of clean cotton cloth (old T-shirt) and put a little alchohol on it and push my middle finger into the centre of the cloth then into the thumb hole.
Only use a small piece of cloth about 3 inches square.
What I find is it cleans the hole and dries it perfectly.
I do this every time I clean my balls and find that it stops the build up of dirt totally.
I know its pretty much what charlest said but I wanted to join in too.
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charlest

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2003, 08:35:33 AM »
quote:
I put it on the spinner every time I clean it with the thumb hole I then get a piece of clean cotton cloth (old T-shirt) and put a little alchohol on it and push my middle finger into the centre of the cloth then into the thumb hole.
I do this every time I clean my balls and find that it stops the build up of dirt totally.
I know its pretty much what charlest said but I wanted to join in too.
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Plain drug-store or pharmacy alcohol will help keep it clean, but it won't clean out tape residue or grease build-up. You need stronger stuff like Denatured alcohol. Acetone is the best for this; PLUS remembers it dissolves plastics, so it is perfect for cleaning and restructuring the urethane sleeve. Nothing makes it smoother, not 600 grit, not 1000 grit sandpaper.

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The Ratpack

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2003, 05:15:29 PM »
I have the same problem and have found that putting Nu-Skin over the back of my thumb does the job it stops the sweat and gives a clean release.Similar to using tape.
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star

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2003, 10:05:01 AM »
Charlest I use acetone when I want to take a tiny bit out of the thumb hole in a simillar fashion to what I said I do to clean it.
I totally agree with you as I do find that it is fantastically smooth after. But it does seem to make the thumb hole a little bigger which can be a bad thing if done regularly over a long length of  time. That is why I use the alcohol. With the spinner going at the speed that it goes at it does seem to clean most things out, but I dont use tape so I cant really comment on how it works with the residue.
The alcohol that I use is surgical spirit so there may be some denatured alcohol in there. Im no chemist but you may be able to help me there.
I used the acetone trick when I did someone thumb hole for them not so long ago and they were totally in awe as to how smooth it was.

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Happy go lucky bowler from the UK.
Specs. 430rpm,18mph off hand. 11-12deg Tilt, 50-60 deg Rotation. PAP 5 1/4 by 3/4 up.
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Mo Pinel. The Guru.
Larry Matthews “The Bowling Professor”
Sawbones.
Thong Princess.
Thanks for the FUN times.

spatten

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2003, 05:44:10 PM »
Guys,

After experimenting and struggling, I thought I would post my results after all the good information in this post.

Three weeks ago I was realeasing the ball like a champ.  Then I walk into the alley and all of a sudden I can't get the ball off my thumb. I am lofting the ball 15 feet down the lane with any release.  The thing is my thumb goes in the ball fine - when I try to pull it out I get friction, pops, and eventually skin tears.  


This is what I tried and the results:

Hypafix Tape - This stuff is really perfect for protecting wounds, much better than the stuff ebonite sells.  I tend to get a lot of open wounds on my thumb, so I will keep this handy.  The downside is it doesn't seem to provide any smoother a release.

Soapstone - This stuff provides a nice smooth surface for a couple throws. I have to keep reapplying and eventually it gets oily and the ball hangs up worse.

Hand Conditioner by Master - This stuff is supposed to dry your hands and stay slick.  This seems to dry the hands, but the urethane slug still grabs.  The problem is still with the plug getting moist.

Quick Release Tape by Master -  This stuff seems pretty slick.  I tested this in 2 balls. While it seemed to provide a nice surface, the damn ball still hung up on me.  I am beginning to think I need to fix the surface of my thumb and the slug.  Also, I would probably have to have 4 pieces of tape to get good coverage around the hole.

Cleaning the Slug  - Ok I spent several hours prepping my slugs.  First I sanded, 220 - 400 - 600.  This left the plugs nice and slick. Then I cleaned with Formula 409 and then isopropyl.  Everything seemed ready to go.  
I bowled about 5-10 games a piece with the balls, and now they are back to damn takiness.


Remaing options and my thoughts,

1.  Vent hole - Excellent driller in the proshop was hesitant about this, but said he would do it if I felt it necessary.  He needs to get a new bit.

2.  Adopt a strict cleaning regimen -  I haven't tried the Acetone, but this is probably next on my list.  Perhaps the Acetone cleaning will last longer.  Otherwise I am going to be spending 2x the time cleaning that I bowl

3.  Open the thumb holes more -  I am really hesisitant to do this.  I know it is so easy to grip the ball with a bent thumb if I do this.  This will be last step.  

4.  Find a perfect release - One coach I am working with seems to think I am turning my hand too soon and this is causing the ball to stay on my hand.  While this may have a ring of truth, I don't think it solves the w(hole) problem. The best release I have ever had is when my thumb slips out of the ball as it passes the knee, falls into the fingers, then my hand turns and I get plenty of revs and a good axis of rotation etc.  When the holes are tacky the ball never seems to slip of my thumb no matter how I hold my hand - and turning the hand seems to become irrelevant because the thumb is still in the ball. I also don't believe I am doing all that much different in my release to go from great to no release in this time period.


Has anyone else ever fought this much with their thumb?  Any other thoughts?



Thanks,
Scott


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MI 2 AZ

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2003, 06:21:23 PM »
So, are you saying that the main problem seems to be from moisture (sweat) that gets into your thumbhole?   Or is your thumb swelling slightly after you bowl and you are not getting a clean release from the thumbhole?

If it is because your thumb is swelling slightly, you might have to open up the thumbhole while the thumb is still swollen, then use either a Magic Carpet on the backside of the thumbhole and/or use tape in the front of the thumbhole to snug it up and if your thumb swells more, you can take tape out as you need to and when it shrinks, put tape in to tighten it back up.  Also, is your thumbhole presently oval or round?   Many bowlers have to have just the sides opened up (oval) and not the entire hole.  For a RH, you would have to sand out the thumbhole at about 10:00 o'clock and 4:00 o'clock thumb positions to make it oval.  

Have your driller check your thumbhole for proper size and pitches.  
You can email Ron Clifton and get a sample or two of his Magic Carpets to try.
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2003, 06:25:54 PM »
At this webpage you can find Ron's email address and his bowling tips.

http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm
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spatten

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2003, 06:48:26 PM »
MI 2 AZ,

I guess what I am saying is that I can't figure out the problem exatcly.  I know that when I smooth one surface(my thumb or the slug) it helps a bit but the darn plug always ends up sticking to my thumb.  I have probably lost skin about .5 cm in diameter 8 or 9 times over the past 3 months.

I don't believe it is sweat, my hands are just naturally moist. The only way I can desribe it is that my thumb seems to stick to the plug.  I put my thumb in the hole easily, and then my thumb seems to relax and fill up the space then STICK.

Also, I have a very flexible and very flat thumb. I can easily form about 160 degrees between the fingers and the thub when bent backwards. The plugs are each worked-out. My thumb can only really go in the hole in one orientation becuase of the oval shape. I don't know if this is contrubting to the problem.      

I have heard about Magic Carpet- I may get some samples and try them in one ball.  Something has to work eventually.  It is really frustrating to have worked and worked on technique, to get a classic and accurate, moderately powerful approach and then by stymied by my thumb. Sorry if this seems like whinning.  Everyone has been helpful

Take care,
Scott

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MI 2 AZ

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2003, 07:20:19 PM »
I dont think you are whining.  You are seeking help to a problem, which is one reason for these forums.

I wish I could help you further, but if you are not sticking due to swelling, and it is related to excess hand moisture, I dont know what you can do other that open up the thumbhole and coat the insides with a slick tape (to eliminate a problem with the slug material).  I personally dont use thumbslugs but I have heard that there are two different types of material used in these.  You might want to try the other material that is available in one of your balls and see if this helps.  (Just reread your original post and saw where you mentioned that you just switched to urethane slugs - I guess you stuck with the other inserts too?)

You might have to just keep washing off and drying your hand after every couple of frames.  Isopropyl alcohol is supposed to remove moisture from the skin.  Buy and try some of those premoistened pads that come with alcohol.
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star

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2003, 08:34:09 AM »
There is a very good bowler here in the UK who was talking to friend of mine about thumb problems.
Hers was that she started with a good thumb fit, but it became looser as the night went on.
His remarks were that it was good because it shows she wasnt gripping the ball with her thumb at all and as the night went on her thumb was shrinking because of this.
Now Im wondering if you may be be gripping ever so slightly with your thumb so causing it to swell. May not be your problem, but may have something to do with it.
Have you tried:
Blowing into the thumb before every ball,
Tapping the thumb hole with your gripsac every time before you bowl.
2 methods I can think of that may help. Otherwise i think its a case of keeping a cloth in your bag and some alcohol and cleaning the thumb out after every set.
Hope you have some luck with it as I know that all this fussing really ruins your game.
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Happy go lucky bowler from the UK.
   Did someone say tough luck
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Happy go lucky bowler from the UK.
Specs. 430rpm,18mph off hand. 11-12deg Tilt, 50-60 deg Rotation. PAP 5 1/4 by 3/4 up.
                   R.I.P.
Mo Pinel. The Guru.
Larry Matthews “The Bowling Professor”
Sawbones.
Thong Princess.
Thanks for the FUN times.

turnandclick

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Re: How to keep insert slick?
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2003, 09:29:52 PM »
Hey, Everyone did any one look at the new product at www.griplocproducts.com this new urethane thumb insert will help you with the majority of thumb problems as your thumb swell or shrinks you can change these insert within seconds,while your bowling to give you that constant feel you've been looking for.
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