Post by: spatten on September 10, 2003, 07:28:28 PM
Looking for a suggestion to help get my thumb out. I tend to have
moist hands that stick in the insert.
We recently switched my inserts to urethane, and this did provide a nice slick
surface. However after about several games on each ball the tackiness is back and I cannot get out clean. Any suggestions on how to get it slick again?
Last night I tried sprinkling soapstone on my thumb, but this only marginally helped for each shot and then had to be reapplied.
Thanks,
Scott
Post by: sszabina on September 11, 2003, 10:35:41 AM
Post by: pnj1967 on September 11, 2003, 10:42:51 AM
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Just trying to improve and help others when I can.
Post by: TyLytle on September 11, 2003, 10:55:13 AM
Also Don't put your thumb in the thumb hole until you are ready to to throw.
I used to put mine in when I picked up the ball, and by the time I was lined up and ready to roll it would be getting moist and stick. Now I line up, slide the thumb in and go. Has helped out a lot.
Ty
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Later,
Ty
Edited on 9/11/2003 11:05 AM
Post by: spatten on September 11, 2003, 11:03:05 AM
Can you explain this vent hole? Thanks.
TyLytle,
I think rosin would make it stick even more, but I might try anyways. Thanks for the tip about not leaving the thumb in too long.
pnj1967,
I will check into the hypafix tape. Sounds interesting. Would you wrap your thumb - or try to fit some in the insert?
Thanks all,
Scott
Post by: TyLytle on September 11, 2003, 11:12:52 AM
rosin is a bag with cat litter type stuff in it to dry up moisture.
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Later,
Ty
Edited on 9/11/2003 11:23 AM
Post by: Debina on September 11, 2003, 11:26:46 AM
)In June I found a perfect thumb "cocktail" so to speak. First, Ron's Magic Carpet; add to that a thin strip of Hypafix medical tape to the back of the thumb; and then keep a pile of those nifty alcohol towelettes on hand for when your fingers and thumb get sweaty or oily.
My coach thought I was nuts at first, but the result has been pretty good, so he's a believer now. My average was up +13 in summer league since I started this little ritual.
Coach told me the other day that one of the "big" bowling companies is coming out with some alcohol wipes similar to what I've been using. I just buy the ones they sell in the drug store with the diabetic supplies, and coach and I agree that they're probably cheaper than any speciality item that will come from the bowling industry.
Anyway, try a few different combinations of things to find out what works for you.
Good luck!
Deb
Post by: spatten on September 11, 2003, 11:36:13 AM
I'm sure I can find an answer amongst the suggestions.
Scott
Post by: MI 2 AZ on September 11, 2003, 12:28:36 PM
Rosin is used to give you more grip. The Grip Sacks are what is used to absorb moisture and eliminate stickiness.
For more info on HypaFix tape, check out this link:
http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=27399&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5
Post by: 9andaWiggle on September 11, 2003, 12:34:39 PM
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: TyLytle on September 11, 2003, 01:03:28 PM
The Johnny Petraglia rosin bag is great for keeping your hands dry.
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Later,
Ty
Edited on 9/11/2003 1:15 PM
Post by: TyLytle on September 11, 2003, 01:07:43 PM
Quote
Rosin is used to give you more grip. The Grip Sacks are what is used to absorb moisture and eliminate stickiness.
Rosin is for drying.... Resin is for grip...
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Later,
Ty
Post by: Ishmael on September 11, 2003, 01:24:02 PM
Post by: MI 2 AZ on September 11, 2003, 01:29:27 PM
I thought we used to use rosin bags in baseball for a grip. We used to use some bags called Sta-Dry or something like that to keep the moisture off the hands. Now they call the bags Grip Bags. I am so confused.
Post by: Bjaardker on September 11, 2003, 02:20:53 PM
However the other night I ran out of hypa-fix & needed something quick.
I found the easy-slide worked just fine.
Post by: charlest on September 11, 2003, 02:27:41 PM
If the insert is getting tacky, it is getting dirty. CLEAN IT!! 91% drug-store alcohol is fine. Acetone from the hardware store the best.
Sand it, if and when necessary, with 320-400 grit and then put some acetone on a thin but absorbent material, like an old undershirt; use your pinky (it's th eonly finger thin enough when wrapped by the material) and swab the inside of the thumb. This will remove all the dirt (some may need slight rubbing, but never very much) and will make the urethane slightly soft. DO NOT TOUCH IT! Let it dry for 30-45 minutes; it will re-harden smooth and slick and perfectly clean.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: T-GOD on September 11, 2003, 03:41:32 PM
Also, the vent hole is a good idea. Using black bowlers tape instead of white on the back of your thumbhole will help too. Hypafix tape will also help/work.
You should be able to come up with something that works out of all these suggestions. =:^D
Post by: T-GOD on September 11, 2003, 03:47:57 PM
Post by: Brickguy221 on September 11, 2003, 11:02:37 PM
Post by: star on September 12, 2003, 07:42:13 AM
Then I switch on making sure the hole is perfectly in the middle. I then get a piece of clean cotton cloth (old T-shirt) and put a little alchohol on it and push my middle finger into the centre of the cloth then into the thumb hole.
Only use a small piece of cloth about 3 inches square.
What I find is it cleans the hole and dries it perfectly.
I do this every time I clean my balls and find that it stops the build up of dirt totally.
I know its pretty much what charlest said but I wanted to join in too.
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Happy go lucky bowler from the UK
.Did someone say tough luck
Post by: charlest on September 12, 2003, 08:35:33 AM
quote:
I put it on the spinner every time I clean it with the thumb hole I then get a piece of clean cotton cloth (old T-shirt) and put a little alchohol on it and push my middle finger into the centre of the cloth then into the thumb hole.
I do this every time I clean my balls and find that it stops the build up of dirt totally.
I know its pretty much what charlest said but I wanted to join in too.
--------------------
Happy go lucky bowler from the UK
Did someone say tough luck
Plain drug-store or pharmacy alcohol will help keep it clean, but it won't clean out tape residue or grease build-up. You need stronger stuff like Denatured alcohol. Acetone is the best for this; PLUS remembers it dissolves plastics, so it is perfect for cleaning and restructuring the urethane sleeve. Nothing makes it smoother, not 600 grit, not 1000 grit sandpaper.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: The Ratpack on September 12, 2003, 05:15:29 PM
Post by: star on September 15, 2003, 10:05:01 AM
I totally agree with you as I do find that it is fantastically smooth after. But it does seem to make the thumb hole a little bigger which can be a bad thing if done regularly over a long length of time. That is why I use the alcohol. With the spinner going at the speed that it goes at it does seem to clean most things out, but I dont use tape so I cant really comment on how it works with the residue.
The alcohol that I use is surgical spirit so there may be some denatured alcohol in there. Im no chemist but you may be able to help me there.
I used the acetone trick when I did someone thumb hole for them not so long ago and they were totally in awe as to how smooth it was.
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Happy go lucky bowler from the UK
.Did someone say tough luck
Post by: spatten on September 18, 2003, 05:44:10 PM
After experimenting and struggling, I thought I would post my results after all the good information in this post.
Three weeks ago I was realeasing the ball like a champ. Then I walk into the alley and all of a sudden I can't get the ball off my thumb. I am lofting the ball 15 feet down the lane with any release. The thing is my thumb goes in the ball fine - when I try to pull it out I get friction, pops, and eventually skin tears.
This is what I tried and the results:
Hypafix Tape - This stuff is really perfect for protecting wounds, much better than the stuff ebonite sells. I tend to get a lot of open wounds on my thumb, so I will keep this handy. The downside is it doesn't seem to provide any smoother a release.
Soapstone - This stuff provides a nice smooth surface for a couple throws. I have to keep reapplying and eventually it gets oily and the ball hangs up worse.
Hand Conditioner by Master - This stuff is supposed to dry your hands and stay slick. This seems to dry the hands, but the urethane slug still grabs. The problem is still with the plug getting moist.
Quick Release Tape by Master - This stuff seems pretty slick. I tested this in 2 balls. While it seemed to provide a nice surface, the damn ball still hung up on me. I am beginning to think I need to fix the surface of my thumb and the slug. Also, I would probably have to have 4 pieces of tape to get good coverage around the hole.
Cleaning the Slug - Ok I spent several hours prepping my slugs. First I sanded, 220 - 400 - 600. This left the plugs nice and slick. Then I cleaned with Formula 409 and then isopropyl. Everything seemed ready to go.
I bowled about 5-10 games a piece with the balls, and now they are back to damn takiness.
Remaing options and my thoughts,
1. Vent hole - Excellent driller in the proshop was hesitant about this, but said he would do it if I felt it necessary. He needs to get a new bit.
2. Adopt a strict cleaning regimen - I haven't tried the Acetone, but this is probably next on my list. Perhaps the Acetone cleaning will last longer. Otherwise I am going to be spending 2x the time cleaning that I bowl
3. Open the thumb holes more - I am really hesisitant to do this. I know it is so easy to grip the ball with a bent thumb if I do this. This will be last step.
4. Find a perfect release - One coach I am working with seems to think I am turning my hand too soon and this is causing the ball to stay on my hand. While this may have a ring of truth, I don't think it solves the w(hole) problem. The best release I have ever had is when my thumb slips out of the ball as it passes the knee, falls into the fingers, then my hand turns and I get plenty of revs and a good axis of rotation etc. When the holes are tacky the ball never seems to slip of my thumb no matter how I hold my hand - and turning the hand seems to become irrelevant because the thumb is still in the ball. I also don't believe I am doing all that much different in my release to go from great to no release in this time period.
Has anyone else ever fought this much with their thumb? Any other thoughts?
Thanks,
Scott
Post by: MI 2 AZ on September 18, 2003, 06:21:23 PM
If it is because your thumb is swelling slightly, you might have to open up the thumbhole while the thumb is still swollen, then use either a Magic Carpet on the backside of the thumbhole and/or use tape in the front of the thumbhole to snug it up and if your thumb swells more, you can take tape out as you need to and when it shrinks, put tape in to tighten it back up. Also, is your thumbhole presently oval or round? Many bowlers have to have just the sides opened up (oval) and not the entire hole. For a RH, you would have to sand out the thumbhole at about 10:00 o'clock and 4:00 o'clock thumb positions to make it oval.
Have your driller check your thumbhole for proper size and pitches.
You can email Ron Clifton and get a sample or two of his Magic Carpets to try.
Post by: MI 2 AZ on September 18, 2003, 06:25:54 PM
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm
Post by: spatten on September 18, 2003, 06:48:26 PM
I guess what I am saying is that I can't figure out the problem exatcly. I know that when I smooth one surface(my thumb or the slug) it helps a bit but the darn plug always ends up sticking to my thumb. I have probably lost skin about .5 cm in diameter 8 or 9 times over the past 3 months.
I don't believe it is sweat, my hands are just naturally moist. The only way I can desribe it is that my thumb seems to stick to the plug. I put my thumb in the hole easily, and then my thumb seems to relax and fill up the space then STICK.
Also, I have a very flexible and very flat thumb. I can easily form about 160 degrees between the fingers and the thub when bent backwards. The plugs are each worked-out. My thumb can only really go in the hole in one orientation becuase of the oval shape. I don't know if this is contrubting to the problem.
I have heard about Magic Carpet- I may get some samples and try them in one ball. Something has to work eventually. It is really frustrating to have worked and worked on technique, to get a classic and accurate, moderately powerful approach and then by stymied by my thumb. Sorry if this seems like whinning. Everyone has been helpful
Take care,
Scott
Post by: MI 2 AZ on September 18, 2003, 07:20:19 PM
I wish I could help you further, but if you are not sticking due to swelling, and it is related to excess hand moisture, I dont know what you can do other that open up the thumbhole and coat the insides with a slick tape (to eliminate a problem with the slug material). I personally dont use thumbslugs but I have heard that there are two different types of material used in these. You might want to try the other material that is available in one of your balls and see if this helps. (Just reread your original post and saw where you mentioned that you just switched to urethane slugs - I guess you stuck with the other inserts too?)
You might have to just keep washing off and drying your hand after every couple of frames. Isopropyl alcohol is supposed to remove moisture from the skin. Buy and try some of those premoistened pads that come with alcohol.
Post by: star on September 20, 2003, 08:34:09 AM
Hers was that she started with a good thumb fit, but it became looser as the night went on.
His remarks were that it was good because it shows she wasnt gripping the ball with her thumb at all and as the night went on her thumb was shrinking because of this.
Now Im wondering if you may be be gripping ever so slightly with your thumb so causing it to swell. May not be your problem, but may have something to do with it.
Have you tried:
Blowing into the thumb before every ball,
Tapping the thumb hole with your gripsac every time before you bowl.
2 methods I can think of that may help. Otherwise i think its a case of keeping a cloth in your bag and some alcohol and cleaning the thumb out after every set.
Hope you have some luck with it as I know that all this fussing really ruins your game.
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Happy go lucky bowler from the UK
.Did someone say tough luck
Post by: turnandclick on September 20, 2003, 09:29:52 PM
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turnandclick
Post by: Rev_O on September 20, 2003, 10:54:00 PM
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Rev-O
Post by: spatten on September 22, 2003, 12:34:41 PM
Did a little bit more work this weekend on the problem. Talked to my driller about pitches. I have 9/16 rev in the thumb (4 7/8 span) and he was pretty set against going any further.
I went back to using some hypafix, and I found if I coated both sides(not top and bottom) of the thumb with the tape I could get out smoothly. Unfortunately, applying in this fashion did not allow the tape to stay on for more than a few throws. But it did get me thinking.
What we ended up doing was really widening the side to side of the holes. We kept the front to back as close to the same as we could. This seemed to really help. I don't know if this is the best solution - but it will probably work. Thanks for all your help. I applied the acetone to the inserts also and really liked how well it cleaned the insert. I am also using some powder to keep the thumb dry.
Scott
Post by: charlest on September 22, 2003, 02:55:00 PM
1. 9/16" is a LOT of reverse pitch. I hope that's what you REALLY need. WHen I went to 3/8" reverse, I found I had to keep the thumb hole perfectly sized to match my thumb's shrinking and swelling during sets. If I did not constantly add and remove tape, I would drop or knuckle the ball (to prevent dropping). When I went down to 1/8" reverse, I add and remove tape much less often.
2. In about 2 of your replies above, you stated you were good for a long while then it stuck again. If that's true, then maybe you just need some strong alcohol to clean your thumb and the hole in the latter stages of your bowling, be it 3 games or 5 games. Our strongest drug-store or supermarket alcohol is 91%. That's fairly strong and will clean oils and sweat off your tthumb and most dirt from your thumb hole.
Carrying a 4 oz (125-150 ml) plastic bottle in your bowling bag is easy; I carry one. carry thin cotton towel to clean thumb hole and thumb.
Last question: are you sure your thumb hole fits properly? so you can't knuckle (bend) your thumb at all?
If your thumb shrinks as you bowl, adjust the thumb hole at the start of bowling with white (sticky, rough surface) tape or the black kind (very smooth). Then add tape as your thumb shrinks during bowling. YOu have to be VERY aware of how your thumb fits when you start: it should be ALMOST snug. WHen it gets too easy to put your thumb in, it's probably shrunken and you need to add more tape to the hole.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: charlest on September 22, 2003, 03:06:56 PM
quote:
star wrote:
Charlest I use acetone when I want to take a tiny bit out of the thumb hole in a simillar fashion to what I said I do to clean it.
I totally agree with you as I do find that it is fantastically smooth after. But it does seem to make the thumb hole a little bigger which can be a bad thing if done regularly over a long length of time.
Yes, I agree, but you've got to use a lot less than what's needed to remove plastic. I just lightly dampen an old cotton undershirt and just wipe the rough edge of the thumb insert. This smoothes the sanded surface. I also use it to clean the tape residue and dirt stuck to the inside. I can't say I've noticed that I've ever removed enough to make the hole smaller. I think you'd see white plastic on the cloth with which you applied the acetone. maybe, maybe not; not sure. When I dampen a cloth, it often evaporates before I can use it all.
quote:
The alcohol that I use is surgical spirit so there may be some denatured alcohol in there. Im no chemist but you may be able to help me there.
Not sure what "surgical spirits" might be in simple layman's terms.
Denatured ethyl alcohol has the water removed. The strongest topical alcohol civilians can get is 91% isopropyl alcohol or rubbign alcohol (the rest is water, AFAIK). Denatured Alcohol can be bought, here in US, in hardware stores for cleaning purposes, like "mineral spirits", Methyl Ethyl ketone, turpentine, Lacquer thinner, etc., some of which can be very dangerous - fire, explosive, toxic.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: spatten on September 22, 2003, 05:06:34 PM
I know the trend is to move more towards a neutral pitch in the thumb. However,
I have a long thumb (3"), and it is very flexible (160 degree hinge) - both which add to the needed reverse (I think). Eventually, I may buy a cheap plastic ball and see if I could get away with less. But now I am so nervous about hanging up, it scares me.
For years I bowled with a bent thumb, and I have been working very hard to get out of it. As long as I concentrate for a few throws, I seem to be able to keep my thumb relaxed with slight pressure near the inside base. I believe I can maintain this even with the larger thumb hole. So far it seems to work.
I think the "almost snug" thumbhole is a dead end for me. As much as I like it - it is always a battle. I can get out a few times, but then I end up throwing the ball of my hand just to make sure it comes off. Even going to drastic measures (applying hypafix every other frame) doesn't seem to keep my consistent. I may try snugging up the back a bit, but making sure the sides are wide open.
Thanks for the warning,
Scott