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Author Topic: Burnout or carrydown?  (Read 4461 times)

Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Burnout or carrydown?
« on: May 03, 2014, 09:24:59 AM »
Lets throw this turd in the punchbowl as I can only imagine the replies.

     I see a lot of reviews on here and especially by "Staffers" who will review a ball and put in the "ball was good on fresh until carry down" or "ball pushed in the front until carry down then ball came to life." How many people actually look at lane after to see pattern breakdown? I do quite often and especially when I am coaching someone to show them. I do not see carry down, but definitely see burnout in the heads. What I do see down lane is small checks of minimal oil put on the lane from where bowties are coming in contact with the lane.

     So here is my actual question. These balls that are great on the fresh and not reading when "carry down" occurs, are they actually reading to early and dying out later in lineage play due to too strong of a drill layout or too much surface? The balls that do not read until the so called "carry down" appears are they not drilled strong enough or have enough surface to read the fresh heads and come to life when the heads start burning up allowing the ball to react at the proper area on the lane?
J. Helton
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avabob

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2014, 09:50:35 AM »
It is a fact that all conditions simultaneously burn oil off the heads and carry some down as they transition.  Longer buffs can make carrydown relatively unnoticeable, but no amount of head oil can lesson the impact of early burn.

Good example is nationals.  On the 43 foot buff in the team event everyone is forced to go a bit straighter right out of the gate.  You don't really notice the carrydown, because you aren't playing the back ends, but, are playing a track that is developing as the heads break down.  Scores are high in the team event beause the transitions are simpler.  On the shorter pattern, transitions are tough in the doubles because there is some back end out of the gate.  However when people try to use it they get both a carrydown impact and burn in the heads during transitions.  Scores are very low in doubles.  By singles, the transitions have settled down, and the shot has opened up to where guys can get left and swing the ball.

Carrydown is real, but the impact is temporary at most, and not really a factor on long buffs.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 10:06:12 AM by avabob »

Dave81644

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2014, 09:50:46 AM »
I believe you are right in track with your thoughts
i have also went downlane after a bunch of lineage and there is no carrydown
these strong balls lift oil off the lane with every rotation and it certainly looks like carry down to the untrained eye, but in reality, the heads are burning up and the the ball has no energy left downlane
I would bet there is data out there showing this exact scenario, in fact, i have seen it during some classroom presentations, I just dont have a link or a copy of it anymore

charlest

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2014, 10:06:55 AM »
If you guys are talking about everyone using reactive resin balls, then, yes, it's more than likely that just the head oil has been depleted.

But, I guarantee you when there's open bowling  or a women's league, before our league, then we have both head oil depleted and carrydown. Those plastic balls and house urethanes definitely remove the head oil and deposit some of it further down lane.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Dave81644

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2014, 10:15:33 AM »
very true, did not think about that while reading the 1st post.
And that scenario of carrydown is all over the lane, not in 1 spot.
usually, the lanes are fubar at this point (from my experience)

Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2014, 10:25:27 AM »
I definitely agree with the plastics moving oil, but when a ball is reviewed, chances are pretty good that they tested on a fresh oil shot and lanes transitioned. Would bet they did not drill and go and tell them to turn on a lane that has been bowled on by open bowlers all day so they can test a ball.
J. Helton
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Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2014, 10:29:33 AM »
Most ball tests and reviews normally specify what shot they were bowling on. Boardwalk, Easy Street, Dead Mans Curve, THS, ect. Not many if any state they were bowling on a mystery shot.
J. Helton
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JustRico

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2014, 01:13:05 PM »
A majority, no matter ability, truly do NOT understand ball motion or reaction...they tend to throw and as soon as adjustment is needed most have little idea of what actually to do...most of this has been created by 'patterns' as bowlers are told how to attack a condition...nothing on transition or change...thus the bowler is fine until there is any adversity
I have worked with bowlers where they could strike and/or hit the pocket (on a THS by themselves) for literally 30 mins...as soon as they see over reaction, they go to the bag instead of understanding how to move or chase a condition
Bowlers do not understand angles and what honestly creates them along with reaction
At the mini eliminator one year, we actually graphed the lane at different stages of the days...you'd be surprised at how little conditioner would 'carry-down' the lane...in an event such as that, it was the amt residual friction that effected the reaction, as the conditioner would dissipate more than anything creating different lay down areas or more of a diamond effect...the fronts would go, there'd be conditioner still built up in the middle and friction down lane thus creating different angles...it was the lane more than anything
When you have the proper ball in your hands you never see 'carry down'
The reason for straighter angles at natls is more so cliffed back ends....little buff...the more the fronts go, the more the angles increase and the players are forced inside, the become very sensitive...better straighter angles
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 01:27:11 PM by JustRico »
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lilpossum1

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2014, 01:52:35 PM »
What is the best way to learn how to adjust for transition? All I seem to do is move left or right to adjust for heavy/light hits, or I ball down to stay in my comfort zone. I have no idea how to adjust for transition. Very rarely can I move and still have miss room

JustRico

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2014, 01:58:40 PM »
Watch as the ball enters the pin deck and exits it...that tells you what the ball is doing
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lilpossum1

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Re: Burnout or carrydown?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2014, 02:54:30 PM »
Not trying to be too inquisitive, but can you elaborate? I am guessing the ball is supposed to exit between the 8 and 9 pin, and assuming the bowler is right handed, if the ball hits too much of the 9 pin, it does not have enough angle because of a poor line of choice or the ball is burning up?