Author Topic: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah (Read 4578 times)

Dan Belcher · « **on:** July 23, 2009, 11:14:48 PM »

This is the one PBA Experience league pattern I've never been able to figure out. Considering I have a lower rev rate, this is surprising. However, I always struggle to get any area since the lanes change so quickly and constantly.

In practice, I was playing about 2-3 at the breakpoint, and by the end of the 4th game I had started pointing the ball toward the headpin and was playing around 8 at the breakpoint. No matter what line I played, the slightest miss right was a 2-4-8-10 or a washout, and the slighest miss left was a 6-7-10.

Once I settled into an area, the ball would hook back to the pocket for about two, maybe three frames tops, then it would start to blow past the breakpoint and never make it back to the headpin. I threw a shot that left a 2-4-8-10 at one point, and my buddy who watched me release that shot was dumbfounded -- he expected it to be high-flush after the past two shots I had thrown that looked very similar off my hand. I was similarly confused!

So, I tried throwing everything from strong equipment with a dull surface to weak equipment with a polished surface, and they all gave me the same results: not enough midlane, and the ball just squirted after two or three frames. The best look I had all night was throwing my plastic ball directly up the 10 board, but the carrydown got so bad after just five frames that I had a nasty over/under look with it even!

Does anyone have any recommendations how to attack a heavier-volume Cheetah pattern to create some miss room and some predictability?

Edit -- and for comparison's sake, I shot between 760 and 800 for 4 games almost every week on the Shark, the Scorpion, and the Chameleon (except for the handful of weeks when I simply could not execute, those days were not so pretty). I shot a 602 last night on the Cheetah. That's probably the lowest four-game block I've had in 10 years on any condition!

Edited on 7/24/2009 7:17 AM

Edited on 7/30/2009 8:49 PM

leftyinsnellville · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2009, 07:21:58 AM »

I had great luck starting with the Break S-75, moving to the Break Pearl, and finishing up with my Neptune. I started straight up 10 and moved in a little as the shot broke down.

Most important, though, is that I stayed behind the ball as much as I could, thus creating more front (and less side) roll. Whenever I got lazy and came around the ball a little too much, I always went high.

I have quickly learned that more front roll is the key on most patterns. (Haven't bowled on the Shark yet this season, but had two weeks of all the others.)

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2009, 07:34:58 AM »

quote:
Whenever I got lazy and came around the ball a little too much, I always went high.

Whenever I came around the ball last night, it just skidded an extra few feet and left a washout.

Goof1073 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2009, 07:41:28 AM »

Try a urethane ball?

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2009, 07:51:16 AM »

quote:
Try a urethane ball?

Don't have one.

Strider · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:01:20 AM »

That was the problem I had with Cheetah last year. For me, once the carry down started, I had to move away from the gutter completely. Instead of playing down 1-2-3, try relatively straight down 7-8-9. You might need a weaker ball and maybe some head belly, but don't let the ball leak right of 5 at the break point.

This year, Cheetah is playing different for me (different house). The gutter is out of play. A couple of the guys have told me 5-7 should be the break point here. Everything I've tried around there hook too early and too much for my liking. I actually played between 3rd and 4th arrow and did decent my last time. I wanted to try the ditch one more time with my Creature now that I added some surface to it, but unfortunately it cracked (now almost in half - still waiting to hear from my pro shop on replacement options). I plan on trying my pearl urethane Slate Blue Gargoyle near the track area to see if it will help me control the front part of the lane better.
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Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive

Jorge300 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:25:25 AM »

quote:
I had great luck starting with the Break S-75, moving to the Break Pearl, and finishing up with my Neptune. I started straight up 10 and moved in a little as the shot broke down.

Most important, though, is that I stayed behind the ball as much as I could, thus creating more front (and less side) roll. Whenever I got lazy and came around the ball a little too much, I always went high.

I have quickly learned that more front roll is the key on most patterns. (Haven't bowled on the Shark yet this season, but had two weeks of all the others.)

This doesn't sound like Cheetah....you should not have been able to find a shot at 10, not one that worked well. The real Cheetah forces you to play out by the gutter. Throwing a ball up 10 should have left you a washout if it was done properly, at least to start the night.

Dan, yours seems to me to be the same. I have not bowled on the "new" Cheetah yet, but on the old one, I have never seen the reaction you are describing. I even bowled it on a house with Brunswick Pro-Anvilanes, where the gutter is usually OB, and while it was a little oiler then I was expecting, the shot was still at the gutter, and I never had a ball go through the breakpoint, it only started to hook earlier, and I throw 18-19 MPH. I think both of these posts come from houses trying to put out a PBA pattern and 1 of 2 things happen (or both): 1) They don't really know what they are foing and put the pattern out incorrectly. 2) They haven't properly stripped the lanes and are just applying the PBA pattern on top of the residual THS they have there (could be part of #1 as well I guess). When I have bowled regionals, I can see the PBA pattern changing throughout the weekend. On Friday during the practice session, there always seems to be more hook. The Saturday for qualifying, the pattern plays tighter and closer to what it should. Then by Sunday and semi-finals and finals, the pattern is usually the tightest. I think it is because the lanes retain some "memory" of the house shot, and the more times the PBA is applied, it loses that memory and the PBA pattern take hold. Unless you fully strip the lanes and remove all the oil, something most houses won't do, I think this occurs. And with PBA experience leagues, this shot goes out once a week usually, so the memory of the house shot never fades and comes through onto the PBA pattern. JMHO though.

From what I have seen/heard, the "new" Cheetah creates a very distinct oil/dry line. I agree with Goof Dan and you might want to think of getting one of the new Urethane balls for this pattern (Storm Natural, Lane #1 has one, I think there is one or two others out now). That should tame the reaction of the dry and let you play straighter, which should help with consistantcy. But it all begins with the center putting the pattern out correctly.
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Jorge300

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #7 on:** July 24, 2009, 08:32:55 AM »

quote:
2) They haven't properly stripped the lanes and are just applying the PBA pattern on top of the residual THS they have there (could be part of #1 as well I guess).

While they do strip the lanes for our PBA league, they only single-strip, unlike on the PBA tour where they double-strip. That may have something to do with it. The scores in our PBA league tend to be lower compared to other PBA leagues I read about online, etc. When they put down the Viper pattern for the Round of 24 of the Kentucky Open last year at this same house, scores were pretty darn low even then. Mike Wolfe only averaged around 200-205 for six games in that block, for example.

I would buy a urethane ball, but it'd be so rare that I'd get to use it that it wouldn't really be worth the investment. Since I have a lower rev rate, I need a little help on the backend to get the corner pins out. Also, I just (begrudgingly) ordered a Rotogrip Mars and will be getting it punched up next week, so I don't really want to buy another ball. (Amazingly, I am pretty restrained about buying new equipment compared to most people here despite always being intrigued by new equipment!)

Jorge300 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2009, 09:05:53 AM »

Dan,
The Mars may work for you as well, being that you have a lower rev rate. I also agree with KW, your move should be right (kinda opposite of what you might think). I know the last time I bowled on Cheetah, that was my moves. I ended up going right about 2 and 1 when i started to lose the pocket and I shot 24x-279 the last two games of the semi-finals.
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Jorge300

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #9 on:** July 24, 2009, 09:10:47 AM »

quote:
Start shelling down on your equipment choices or shell up with a stronger ball with some surface and hook stop it so you can stay on top of the friction. The best way to play cheetah is to stay on top of the hook spot as long as you can since the transitions as you move in get nasty. Your going to move left into a zone where the higher rev players have trashed the pattern. You can't move even more left of that zone because your rev rate will not allow you to play with them in there. You must find a way to stay on top of the friction zone on the gutter. You may have to roll it more forward or up the back to achieve this as well.

When you think it's starting to carry down in your zone, move right more. The move is not to the left or away from the carry down. Your move is even closer to the friction zone.

Edited on 7/24/2009 8:38 AM

I actually tried that move first, using the same logic you used here. Didn't work. Moving right with my feet and/or target just meant the ball missed the headpin further right! I tried using everything from a dulled Dimension to a polished, Rico-drilled Eraser Banshee, and nothing would come back from the outside after a few games. In practice, it worked great, but that area just got beat all to hell after just one game. In practice, the Dimension gave me a great hook/set reaction, I was throwing strikes at will. After just a few frames though, the ball really started to labor and never seemed to get into a strong roll. I thought it was burning up, so I shelled down... and saw my weaker equipment struggle even more to turn the corner! I tried playing directly up the 2 board, and left the 1-2-4-6-10!!!

Joe Jr · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2009, 09:24:44 AM »

The new Cheetah sucks. The gutter is almost dead out of bounds, you can't just throw it to the gutter and watch it bounce off the spot, the friction just isn't there anymore. The people i've seen play the gutter on the new cheetah have hand and speed. I've started around 12 to 6-7 area and usually end up almost around 4th arrow throwing it to the same spot.

I'm glad they are going back to the old one this year.
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My Vid
Just another hack with too much equipment.

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2009, 09:29:09 AM »

quote:
Get even more right with your feet and play the 2 board. I don't have a video of you bowling on it but more times than not most players are not directly going up the lane. There is some head belly, even if be 1 or 2 boards. You can get even more right with your feet. The friction zone on this pattern doesn't disappear or go away it just needs to be attacked at a different angle as the night goes on if your bowling multi games.

Since I can't see you play it, I don't have a solid answer.

Like I said in the previous post, I tried exactly that. I moved as far right as I could and slow-rolled it directly up the 2 board, no belly at all. It didn't hook back. And what's surprising is I was the only person playing this part of the lane on my pair (one guy was wheeling it the entire lane, another guy was playing 15 to 10, and the other bowler was a lefty).

Seriously, this pattern is playing nothing like what the Cheetah is described as. The other patterns played somewhat like you seem them play in a tournament or as-described in the videos on bowl.com (not exactly, but similar). After just a few frames of use, all the friction by the gutter on our Cheetah seems to just completely disappear. I can play out there and bring it back from anywhere for about five frames, and then it just starts to labor more and more every ball.

tdub36tjt · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2009, 10:33:02 AM »

Well if I play straight up 10 on the cheetah I would hit the left side of the 4 pin at my house.

quote:
quote:
I had great luck starting with the Break S-75, moving to the Break Pearl, and finishing up with my Neptune. I started straight up 10 and moved in a little as the shot broke down.

Most important, though, is that I stayed behind the ball as much as I could, thus creating more front (and less side) roll. Whenever I got lazy and came around the ball a little too much, I always went high.

I have quickly learned that more front roll is the key on most patterns. (Haven't bowled on the Shark yet this season, but had two weeks of all the others.)

This doesn't sound like Cheetah....you should not have been able to find a shot at 10, not one that worked well. The real Cheetah forces you to play out by the gutter. Throwing a ball up 10 should have left you a washout if it was done properly, at least to start the night.

Dan, yours seems to me to be the same. I have not bowled on the "new" Cheetah yet, but on the old one, I have never seen the reaction you are describing. I even bowled it on a house with Brunswick Pro-Anvilanes, where the gutter is usually OB, and while it was a little oiler then I was expecting, the shot was still at the gutter, and I never had a ball go through the breakpoint, it only started to hook earlier, and I throw 18-19 MPH. I think both of these posts come from houses trying to put out a PBA pattern and 1 of 2 things happen (or both): 1) They don't really know what they are foing and put the pattern out incorrectly. 2) They haven't properly stripped the lanes and are just applying the PBA pattern on top of the residual THS they have there (could be part of #1 as well I guess). When I have bowled regionals, I can see the PBA pattern changing throughout the weekend. On Friday during the practice session, there always seems to be more hook. The Saturday for qualifying, the pattern plays tighter and closer to what it should. Then by Sunday and semi-finals and finals, the pattern is usually the tightest. I think it is because the lanes retain some "memory" of the house shot, and the more times the PBA is applied, it loses that memory and the PBA pattern take hold. Unless you fully strip the lanes and remove all the oil, something most houses won't do, I think this occurs. And with PBA experience leagues, this shot goes out once a week usually, so the memory of the house shot never fades and comes through onto the PBA pattern. JMHO though.

From what I have seen/heard, the "new" Cheetah creates a very distinct oil/dry line. I agree with Goof Dan and you might want to think of getting one of the new Urethane balls for this pattern (Storm Natural, Lane #1 has one, I think there is one or two others out now). That should tame the reaction of the dry and let you play straighter, which should help with consistantcy. But it all begins with the center putting the pattern out correctly.
--------------------
Jorge300

leftyinsnellville · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2009, 11:09:10 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
I had great luck starting with the Break S-75, moving to the Break Pearl, and finishing up with my Neptune. I started straight up 10 and moved in a little as the shot broke down.

Most important, though, is that I stayed behind the ball as much as I could, thus creating more front (and less side) roll. Whenever I got lazy and came around the ball a little too much, I always went high.

I have quickly learned that more front roll is the key on most patterns. (Haven't bowled on the Shark yet this season, but had two weeks of all the others.)

This doesn't sound like Cheetah....you should not have been able to find a shot at 10, not one that worked well. The real Cheetah forces you to play out by the gutter. Throwing a ball up 10 should have left you a washout if it was done properly, at least to start the night.

Well if I play straight up 10 on the cheetah I would hit the left side of the 4 pin at my house.

Different house, different style, different result. One says he'll get a washout throwing up 10, the other says he'll cross-way over, I say it hit the pocket.

al_g · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2009, 11:37:01 AM »

Dan,

What you're describing is exactly how Cheetah plays in my PBAX league too. I'd heard before bowling on it that the 2008-2009 Cheetah didn't play as close to the gutter like it did before. For reference, we bowl on Pro Anvilane, doubles league, 6 games/night, bowl 3 games against a team, switch pairs 3 games against another team. I've bowled 12 games on Cheetah and shot 2402. I'm probably 300rpm at 17 mph. The balls I used on Cheetah were a Shift, Agent and Zone Classic.

Just a thought but if you have a particle pearl or a hybrid that might blend out the shot for you. Have you tried your 2nd Dimension on it?

On Cheetah I started by playing straight up 4-5 board with a Shift one week and a Zone Classic the other week. I make sure on Cheetah to throw the ball with a lot of forward roll - just let the ball roll. Too much axis rotation seems to get an over/under reaction on it for me. I had no miss room inside but had small miss room outside. As the shot opened up a little I wanted to keep the breakpoint around 4-5 board and by game 6 was playing around 10 out to 4-5.

The second week the last 3 games played very different after we moved pairs. The people on it had been playing only in the track area and anything thrown outside of 5 was OB. I think they pushed the oil out there and blew up the track area. I really struggled the first two games and shot a pair of 160's trying to play everywhere outside of 15. The last game I moved in with an Agent and played 20 to 16 at the break point, tight and deep, 50-55 feet was probably the break point. I could actually get the ball out to 10-12 at 40-42 feet but it was a guaranteed 10 pin if I did that so I kept it in tight to carry. I managed to shoot 254 that game and salvage a 573.

I think the lesson from that is don't be afraid to play areas where no one says you can't. In a PBAX league I don't think we're going to see the same breakdown of the lanes because some people will always play the same area on the lanes no matter what.

Jorge, not to pick on you, but how can you say this isn't how Cheetah plays if you admit you haven't thrown on the new one yet? Everything you said I'd agree with on how Cheetah played before this year. From what I've read, they're going back to the old Cheetah for the upcoming season and the outside boards will be back in play.

Author Topic: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah (Read 4578 times)

Dan Belcher

I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

leftyinsnellville

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Dan Belcher

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Goof1073

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Dan Belcher

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Strider

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Jorge300

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Dan Belcher

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Jorge300

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Dan Belcher

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Joe Jr

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

Dan Belcher

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

tdub36tjt

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

leftyinsnellville

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah

al_g

Re: I (no longer) hate the Cheetah