Post by: bennett on September 16, 2003, 07:17:08 PM
I have yet to hit my average in overall series. The mixed league is the only league so far with some oil down. Still, I couldn’t believe the lack of oil in that league despite seeing the machine laying it down just before the league.
Is this a common trend in your area where centers are putting either no oil or little down? If so, then I won’t be bowling too much longer. I will just do open bowling from time to time for the fun of it. I refuse to pay $17/week for bone dry or even moderate dry conditions. This will kill the sport if this continues. Not everybody throws the ball 20 mph!!
Post by: omegabowler on September 17, 2003, 10:24:18 AM
you are not paying $ 17.00 to bowl. your are probably paying a buck or so for the center to keep stats
and 8 or 9 buck towards prize funds and officers fees.
so you are paying 8 dollars to bowl and donating to other peoples wallets with the rest. now don't you feel better!
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Post by: Pinbuster on September 17, 2003, 10:39:13 AM
You committed to bowl the season be true to your word and complete this year. If you don’t like it then don’t come back next year but don’t leave your team looking for another member.
And you never know conditions may change.
Also why do people buy balls and then expect the condition to match up to their new equipment? If you hadn’t bowled in these leagues before then you had no idea what to expect.
Post by: A_P_K on September 17, 2003, 10:43:15 AM
At least scope out the conditions and purchase appropriate equipment to adjust with on them.
I hate bowling on dirt but I went out of my way to use a high RG/low DIF ball to stay in the league.
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!
Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.
Post by: Urethane Game on September 17, 2003, 11:11:55 AM
Post by: bennett on September 17, 2003, 11:34:43 AM
You make me laugh. Rather than answer a question, you’ve decided to attack the messenger. You could of just answered the question. Yes we have oil or no they are also bone dry. FYI, I bought a variety of bowling balls for various conditions (heavy oil, medium, dry lanes with a variety of drillings). You imply that I bought equipment and I expected them to match up. Yes, I did because I bought 7 balls to fit a variety of conditions, so I can come pretty close to matching up. Guess what? I can only use my plastic ball. If you can’t see my legitimate complaint then you must have your head in the sand. I’m talking about conditions so dry that my plastic ball is hooking like mad. Since I don’t throw the ball 20 mph to keep my plastic ball on line I’m basically going to have an average 30–40 pins below last year’s average. Do you think this is fun after spending $900 in bowling balls? This has been going on for 3 weeks and the only bowlers that do half way decent are the high backswing bowlers that throw it 20mph. As far as leaving teammates hanging that isn’t my fault. So don’t blame for being upset that I can’t use $900 worth of equipment. Do these centers think bowlers enjoy bowling on bone dry conditions so dry that you’re struggling to hit 30 pins below average? The condition (which is none) is so crappy that 200 average bowlers are struggling to hit in the 500 series range in one of the leagues. The high series so far is 605. Who wants this?
Urethane Game,
How do you come to that conclusion when my complaint is legitimate? I had no problems when I bowled on a league with oil. I could throw my normal speed with a reactive resin ball and get results. Was the pattern the same every week? No, but I can find a playable line if there is some oil down. I have nothing to work with when the lanes are dry. All I'm asking is that the center lay some oil down so I don't have to learn how to throw the ball 20 mph, risk throwing my shoulder out, risk knee injuries and God knows what else.
Edited on 9/17/2003 11:46 AM
Post by: tisker on September 17, 2003, 11:37:01 AM
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Tisker- "Mr. 604",Visionary Staff Member (not really)
- Looks like Tarzan, bowls like Jane
Post by: 9andaWiggle on September 17, 2003, 11:57:05 AM
Leaving the league though, hmmm. I personally would stay this season and look at it as a challenge. Actually, I'm bowling in a house this year that caters to the fluffers by putting no oil outside board 10 (maybe exaggerated, maybe not, I can't tell that there's any out there though) and absolutely flying backends. I have avg. 191-195 there in the past, but have not shot 700 in that house. Therefore, 700 is my goal this year - and it will be even sweeter to do it with my pearl urethane since most everyone else uses some form of hook monster. While my style doesn't match up well to these conditions, it is very challenging - besides, I bowl in 2 other houses, so hopefully the variety of conditions and lane materials will help me improve my game. Good Luck!
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: Pinbuster on September 17, 2003, 12:01:22 PM
Post by: Urethane Game on September 17, 2003, 12:02:17 PM
Save your new toys for other houses and tournaments or sell them on this board.
Post by: TyLytle on September 17, 2003, 12:06:31 PM
Ty
Post by: seadrive on September 17, 2003, 12:34:30 PM
Bennett, did you ask the guys who oil the lanes what the deal is? Are they aware that the lanes are bone dry, are they doing it intentionally?
If the remaining league you're in has oil, then it makes sense to ask why the others don't. The house I bowl in puts out the same shot for everybody, because it's the easiest thing for them to do.
The only league they change the program for is the Thursday morning senior ladies league, because they complain that there's too much oil. Most of them are using balls that are older than King and Hamster's ages combined.
Rather than quit, why not get together as many people as you can from these two leagues, and approach the management together, insisting on better conditions (in your case, that means oil). Since you're probably a good customer, you might also enlist the help of the pro shop owner.
Contrary to popular opinion, most houses want to keep their good customers happy.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: sheppy335 on September 17, 2003, 01:20:03 PM
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Oil is served Best with fingers!
Post by: charlest on September 17, 2003, 01:30:30 PM
While I don't condone quitting a league after 2 sessions, I copletely understand how you feel. I joined what is or was supposed to be THE premium league across 2 counties here in western NJ. I bowled on the other side of the house from them last year and while we had horrendous conditions, if you could even call it that, they had 3-5 honor scores EVERY NIGHT!
The first two league nights had very dry the first night, when all Summer, after the lanes were completely stripped and re-surfaced in May of last season, the lanes had medium to medium-light nice, even oil. The 2nd night I brought my Barrage, my weakest, longest resin ball. By the 3rd game I was standing on 40 board, heaving it inside the 4th arrow out to, desperately trying to get it out to the 5 board, succedding only sometimes.
Next week, I bring urethane and an old mild ball that I just put a 5000 grit Storm Diamond polish high gloss shine on.
I will also be talking to the league secretary and the assistant manager about the lane oil!
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: omegabowler on September 17, 2003, 01:50:37 PM
looks like a thread gone angry. let's get back to a more positive note.
tell us your bowling specs:
speed
revs
axis
tilt
which hand
Average
also what balls do you have there layouts.
describe each league better. when are the oiled? how much play is on them? Surface. where do other people line up and what are they throwing.
there is a fair chance that you have to many revs for speed. I had this problem. I still shoot under avg on dry but not that much anymore. a few pins instead of a dozen or more.
Please reply with the info above and you probably come close to someone here in style and reaction and maybe they can help you.
You may want to start a new thread and ask for help then you will get answers instead of beatings
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Edited on 9/17/2003 2:01 PM
Post by: Rantings on September 17, 2003, 01:51:22 PM
BUT then again the don't have to bowl with ben-ette... --------------------
Bowling is for sissies..ask Bones...
Post by: Aristotle on September 17, 2003, 02:04:35 PM
The unfortunate problem with a lot of the centers in the area is that management aren't bowlers. I'm not saying that this is the way things are everywhere, but in this area, we have 1 manager that is an actual bowler and knows how to put down a fair condition. By fair shot, I mean a shot that everyone can play, but isn't so stinking easy that you can miss by 5-10 boards and still score.
As for quitting leagues, I'm with a lot of the other people here.. To me, that's a big no-no.. I've seen a few people do that in some of the leagues around the area and I can only shake my head at it when that happens.. Those people that choose to quit usually end up blackballed from leagues for a few years because no one wants to be left holding the bag for that person's spot if they decide that they're just gonna pick up and leave because things aren't going their way.
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 17, 2003, 02:08:10 PM
I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH YOU! Sure there is ADJUSTMENTS to bowling .. and YES we all have to make them. The point is SHOULD A CENTER BOOK A LEAGUE THEN LEAVE THE LANES DRY FOR THEM? Sure there are cases when there is a 6:30 league followed by a 9:00 league .. can the CENTER oil in between? PROBABLE NOT! But is there any reason WHY the 6:30 leagues should be DRY? My response to that is NO! The house has a responsibility when they BOOK a league .. if they CAN'T put oil down .. IT SHOULD BE CLEARLY STATED when the league is FORMED!
The amount of money spent on BALLS is a bowlers decision .. OIL IS EXPECTED! Let the HIGH ROLLERS get in on DRY LANES and see what their reaction is!
That's MY opinion!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Curly on September 17, 2003, 02:12:30 PM
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CURLY-
"Ich spreche nicht Deutsch!"
Post by: bennett on September 17, 2003, 02:13:48 PM
I have developed a low backswing because I grew up bowling in the 70’s when it was a finesse game. That is why my ball speed is low. Yes, we bowled with plastic, rubber and urethane. So what? Big Deal. Today is a different game. My last season I averaged 210. But what is an average? It all depends on what you bowl on right? That was with oil laid down in a different house. Was it heavy? No, but there was oil. I had lines I could choose from if the shot broke down.
I’m dropping out of one of the leagues because they didn’t lay oil at all last year. They were dry the whole year. I talked to other bowlers that bowled there last year. I wasn’t aware of this or I wouldn’t have joined in the first place. So, no, there isn’t a problem with the machine. They obviously want to cut costs and be cheap. For that kind of attitude I will be cheap and quit. For the first 3 weeks they were bone dry and it won’t change. In fact that league used to have 38 teams. The captain now says they are down to just 16 teams. So, people are quitting for those who say I’m the only one quitting. You’re dead wrong.
The other league I just bowled one week. Bowlers told me that they were bone dry last week. Do you think I needed to ask any more questions? I think not. For the 2 leagues combined, (we are talking about 150 bowlers), there are only about 4 bowlers hitting 200. I’m 198 in one (dry conditions) and 176 (very bone dry conditions) in the one I bowled in last night with a 529 series, the lowest series I’ve bowled in years. There was a bowler there that has a 199 average and he shot 2 games in the 140’s and a 170 some game. So, he didn't even hit 500. I was one of the higher bowlers with my 529 series. It’s not the league for me and I have a right to drop out after the first week.
If it was an out of the blue dry condition that didn’t happen all the time that would be one thing. But this is going to be all of the time.
For the person out there that came to the conclusion that I'm no athlete. I can bench press 225 lbs 10 times easily. I have benched close to 400lbs before. I'm a solid 210 lbs of muscle.
Asking for some oil laid down isn’t asking for a hand out to a 300 game or an 800 series. I just want to bowl with some oil laid down so I can use some of the $900 equipment I bought. Judging by some of the responses on this thread I’m obviously not getting that point through.
I'm truly amazed how people erroneously come to conclusions here. One, I'm not an athlete. Others came to the conclusion that the lanes will only be this way a for a short time (wrong!). One came to the conclusion that I'm the only one quitting. Again wrong. Another came to the conclusion that I'm asking for a hand out (oil can be laid down and still make the shot challenging). I just want some oil laid down so I can try some of my other balls out rather than using plastic all the time.
Edited on 9/17/2003 2:27 PM
Post by: Rantings on September 17, 2003, 02:18:37 PM
What about the team you left behind?
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Bowling is for sissies..ask Bones...
Post by: bennett on September 17, 2003, 02:26:23 PM
I think you're the only one besides maybe one or two others that is seeing my point. That is my point. The center that I've been bowling on for 3 weeks starts at 6:45! There is NO excuse whatsoever to have the lanes dry IMO.
When you buy a bowling ball, you buy it with the intentions you will have a reasonable amount of oil. Sure dry lanes can pop up due to unexpected events (e.g. machine breaks), but this center won't lay any down. I just refuse to pay $17 to bowl on dry lanes and be miserable week after week. I already know I won't learn a thing on dry lanes. How do I know that? I used to practice on dry lanes and I did it for years. Guess what? I averaged in the mid 170's on bone dry lanes (in practice mind you) while I averaged 210+ with oil laid down in leagues. I already know I can't bowl on dry lanes. I will fully admit it. If I could throw 20 mph I could get the ball to the pocket, but I don't have the backswing to generate that kind of speed.
Post by: Steven on September 17, 2003, 02:27:50 PM
As to the question you intended to ask, the level of dry you described seems a little extreme. I bowl in a number of houses, and what you described seems very unusual.
Did you actually talk to house management before walking out? That's obviously the first thing you should have done. If you did, I'm curious to hear what their response was.
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"Advertisers -- you too can have access to this prime demographic"
Post by: TruckFreak69 on September 17, 2003, 02:31:44 PM
Post by: bennett on September 17, 2003, 02:42:39 PM
....A cheap bowler that spent $900 plus another $200 for a bag to hold the balls! That's really a logical statement. More in line is a bowler (that spends money btw) who doesn't want to bowl in houses too cheap to lay oil. If you said that I would respect your opinion and it would have made sense.
Edited on 9/17/2003 2:54 PM
Post by: A_P_K on September 17, 2003, 02:44:26 PM
A huge majority of bowlers on this site take bowling very seriously. Despite the fact I don't quite average 200 I feel that bowling on horrendous conditions will in given time season your skills. I have bowled on two very opposite conditions and struggled to finish the season averaging 198. I've also had my bowler quit on me after the first part of the season for personal reasons I won't mention.
If "you" as a bowler wants to have fun then why would you quit if you aren't bowling well? Also, if you take this sport serious enough to try and get better everyday, why would you quit if you're not adjusting right. Some days you got it, others you don't.
Again, I hate to adjust as much as anyone I know bowling, but if we have to do so to score better than average that's the way it is.
I guess like Steven said most legitimate serious bowlers here hate the cheap people or quitters.
P.S. I'd love to be where you are and only spend $12 a night for league.
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!
Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.
Post by: Rantings on September 17, 2003, 02:45:22 PM
Read Steven's reply again. He did not say you were cheap but that two things this forum tends to dislike are quitters and cheap bowlers. oops..A_P_K beat me to it.
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Bowling is for sissies..ask Bones...
Edited on 9/17/2003 2:55 PM
Post by: T-GOD on September 17, 2003, 02:50:03 PM
This is why the conditions keep getting worse and worse..!! It's because nobody will stand up to the lane conditioning nonsense. Maybe after enough bowlers quit, proprietors and lane men will get the message.
All of you bowlers who think it's alright for the lanes to be dry and/or have terrible conditions, are puppets and have no clue what the game of bowling is really about. You won't stand up for what is right, because you don't know what is right..!!
All of the people slamming Bennett think that lanes should be different all the time, lanes should change as the night goes on, it doesn't matter what the condition is like, just bowl and keep your mouth shut, are why this game is going downhill and will never become a sport..!! =:^D
Post by: Rantings on September 17, 2003, 02:53:30 PM
I would agree that you should get some oil BUT quitting is not the answer. The league should stand together on this not an individual who voices his displeasure by quitting.
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Bowling is for sissies..ask Bones...
Post by: Steven on September 17, 2003, 02:56:23 PM
quote:
If you've been around here any length of time, you know that the legitimate regulars hate quitters. Pointing out that you dropped out of two leagues over shadowed anything else you had to say.
I first emphasized that your message was being rejected because you quit. The first two sentences make this absolutely clear. Now re-read the last part:
quote:
Is this fair? Maybe not, but quitters and cheap bowlers get little sympathy on this board. Consider this when posting future topics.
I mentioned 'cheap bowlers' only in the context of major things that are despised on this forum. I could have also mentioned whiners, complainers, etc. just to round things out. Anyway, I was not calling you cheap.
Regardless, take the chip off your shoulder for a minute and please answer what I asked previously. Did you rationally and calmly talk to house management before picking up your marbles and going home? If so what was their response?
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"Advertisers -- you too can have access to this prime demographic"
Post by: tisker on September 17, 2003, 02:56:54 PM
I suggest you take on a new user ID and start your BR life over again. This one isn't working out for you.
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Tisker- "Mr. 604",Visionary Staff Member (not really)
- Looks like Tarzan, bowls like Jane
Post by: bennett on September 17, 2003, 02:57:15 PM
There was a bowler that started that night. He hasn't bowled in years and he carried an average in the 160's when he bowled.
He didn't know how to bowl, throw a hook with hand or anything. He was falling off balance every shot. Guess what? He had chances to beat me some of my games. He was only about 50 or 60 pins below me in series.
My point is that these dry conditions can (not always, I have bowled well once in awhile on dry) negate the skill of a better bowler with hand and make the lower average bowler feel as though he is almost as good as you are. Oil will reward those with hand. Dry conditions can negate (but not always) the skill level of the higher average bowler.
Edited on 9/17/2003 3:07 PM
Post by: michelle on September 17, 2003, 03:13:03 PM
quote:
Bennett,
looks like a thread gone angry. let's get back to a more positive note.
tell us your bowling specs:
speed
revs
axis
tilt
which hand
Average
also what balls do you have there layouts.
describe each league better. when are the oiled? how much play is on them? Surface. where do other people line up and what are they throwing.
Did I miss something or are we still looking for answers to these queries?
In addition, I am curious about whether the conditions are because of a lack of head oil or if the back ends are where the conditions are problematic.
Personally, I would question the puchase of so much new equipment unless bennett is bowling tourneys in multiple arenas...if only the league environment, then the purchase may not have been warranted. I just hope that bennett didn't have the driller max everything out.
Post by: T-GOD on September 17, 2003, 03:18:35 PM
The masses can't hook the ball or carry that well. So, they go buy the new Hook Monster Ball. The proprietor wants to help them even more by keeping the lanes dry. Now these mediocre bowlers can hook the ball and carry, and their average sky rockets.
What happens to the previous high average/good bowlers..? Their average goes down, because they learned to hook the ball and now all the balls hook too much.
So now what happens is that the previous good bowlers quit. Now you have a whole new group of good bowlers. Pretty soon, it starts all over again and the top bowlers quit. This is why bowling is going downhill.
Can't you guys see this cycle as it happens..? =:^D
Post by: Bruce on September 17, 2003, 03:19:29 PM
I am a fairly new bowler(only bowling 3+ years) and only have a 180 average, but I know when I need to adjust. I have a whole arsenal of bowling balls too, but I know that at some houses I will only be able to use certain balls. If I have to use plastic or a pearl urethan then so be it. And no speed is not an issue I only have a 13-14mph speed range. I love bowling on tough conditions because I know that if I can master the tough conditions it will make me that much better on other conditions.
Bottom line is learn to adjust and stop complaining. Bowling is all about adjusting. It's pretty simple...if you can't adjust then you probably aren't as good as you think you are.
Bruce
Post by: T-GOD on September 17, 2003, 03:39:22 PM
quote:Here we have a 180 average bowler, who's only been bowling for 3 years, making statements to guys who've been bowling for over 30 yrs and averaging 200+ for most of those 30 yrs.
Bottom line is learn to adjust and stop complaining.
quote:
I love bowling on tough conditions because I know that if I can master the tough conditions it will make me that much better on other conditions.
This is a prime example of how new bowlers are getting brain washed, by bowlers who THINK they know something about the game of bowling. =:^D
Post by: 9andaWiggle on September 17, 2003, 03:52:31 PM
quote:
I just want to bowl with some oil laid down so I can use some of the $900 equipment I bought.
No doubt you are excited to throw this new equipment, but if you built your arsenal correctly, you should have maybe 2 balls (definitely 1) you seldom use (assuming a 4 ball arsenal). These would be on opposite sides of the spectrum, and in this instance, you should be using the "dry" side of your arsenal. The 1 ball you would probably seldom use is the monster for super oily lanes. The other 2 should be somewhere in the middle. Personally, I use 2 of my 4 90% of the time - these would be the Stinger Low Flare (drilled to go waaaay long), and my Urethane Scout spare ball/dry lane ball. Maybe 1 out of 10 nights I can use my Savage, and so far I haven't seen enough oil for my Purple Ice Executioner - but no worries, it's there if I need it.
Sorry for being longwinded, but just because you bought the stuff doesn't mean you should automatically expect to be able to throw it. Maybe you should have waited to see what you needed rather than what you wanted.
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: Aristotle on September 17, 2003, 03:57:47 PM
Post by: bennett on September 17, 2003, 03:59:42 PM
I don’t have all the measurements with me on hand but they aren’t maxed out. Only one ball is drilled stacked leverage which I’m unable to use period. The pin is located in various positions for arcing, various backend reactions on my balls. Despite fresh oil being laid down on the mixed league (this league I’m hitting 207 on and the league I intend to stay on because at least there is some oil) I’m still forced to use my Barrage, urethane or plastic while others are able to use stronger equipment. So the Barrage is working the best for me when there is oil down.
I haven’t had my revs measured but I throw 15 mph, up to 16 or 17 on my single pin spares. PAP is 4 ¾ and 3/16 up. But it doesn’t appear to me any of this is going to do me any good on dry lanes.
The bottom line is that I’m unable to use the new bowling balls. The barrage, urethane and plastic is what I’m stuck with. Most of the time I’m using plastic. I called the pro shop owner and he can’t believe these centers aren’t laying oil down.
Sometimes I bowl well with plastic. It is just a lot harder to find a shot for me.
Others,
I did mention to management that the lanes were dry. The next week I came in they were ever drier than the time before. Besides, they were all dry last year. The league is down to 16 teams compared to 38 of what it used to be. Nothing will be done.
Post by: Steven on September 17, 2003, 04:27:09 PM
quote:
I did mention to management that the lanes were dry. The next week I came in they were ever drier than the time before. Besides, they were all dry last year. The league is down to 16 teams compared to 38 of what it used to be. Nothing will be done.
Bennett: I don't know -- something doesn't smell right here. If you're saying that the extent of communications was "I did mention to management that the lanes were dry", that's not enough to sufficiently communicate that you were about to walk out the door. Any house owner who takes the attitude that it's OK to go from 38 to 16 teams is a can short of a six pack, and won't be in business for very long.
Unless the "I don't care" attitude is because he can just fill the house with Cosmic Bowlers, there is something missing from the story.
Personally, I wouldn't mind bowling in what amounts to a plastic league. But it's your life, so go someplace else where there is less anguish. On the positive side, maybe there is a lesson learned here on the value of better communications with house owners. It's amazing what can be fixed with the right kind of interaction.
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"Advertisers -- you too can have access to this prime demographic"
Post by: Aristotle on September 17, 2003, 04:30:39 PM
quote:
I had no trouble with Sean Quinn and Randy Pederson on fresh conditions in the morning, but they would have man handled me at 10 PM when they could loft the gutter cap on the dry, and I couldn't get to 5th arrow because of my approach.
Randy is a slag anyways, Bob.
Post by: Centers on September 17, 2003, 04:45:07 PM
Im either going to get heat on this, or people will agree.
When the lanes get dry, and in your case, dry to the bone, you must use a plastic ball. If everyone else has to use it, then whats the complaint? If you have a good spare game then you should kill them. You mentioned that the lanes were like this last year, why did you join again?
I also don't buy equipment that I know that I cant use. I never will buy paricles, proactives, and anything beyon.
I use to be one of them that would cry about the lanes being dry, and killing the crankers. I decided that my games needed a change, and now I am confident enough to compete on dry lanes. I also stopped buying bowling balls that hooked off the lanes.
It would also be nice to know a little about you so please enter a profile.
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Bowling is just a game.........right?
http://www.gci-net.com/users/s/statsplus/home.htm
Post by: stormerjip on September 17, 2003, 04:59:03 PM
Post by: 9andaWiggle on September 17, 2003, 05:10:20 PM
It sounds to me like he went out, bought a bunch of stuff and found it does not work in 2 of his 3 leagues. To be fair, I don't think (judging from the way he posts) that he ever bowled in the houses where he quit the leagues, so maybe his arsenal was built on experiences elsewhere, we don't know. It just sounds to me like he is more worried about not being able to throw his new equipment, and wants conditions put down that will let him do so. To that I say "good luck", because I've never seen a place put out a pattern to pacify one individual.
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 17, 2003, 05:36:04 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: ThongPrincess on September 17, 2003, 05:46:00 PM
You think you've got it bad. About a month and a half ago the machine messed up and instead of oiling the lane, it was stripping the lanes. The 6PM league was dying trying to keep the ball in the pocket. Most were using plastic. It would have been a riot to see a 9PM league after them. They didn't figure out what happened until mid way through the league session
As for quitting the league because you didn't like the shot, not something I would have done. I would consider it a valuable learning league. If you plan to bowl tournaments, you never know what the conditions will be like. Just my opinion, but then I'm a lefty who likes the dry
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To err is human to be thonged is divine
Post by: Bruce on September 17, 2003, 06:03:58 PM
quote:quote:Here we have a 180 average bowler, who's only been bowling for 3 years, making statements to guys who've been bowling for over 30 yrs and averaging 200+ for most of those 30 yrs.
Bottom line is learn to adjust and stop complaining.quote:
I love bowling on tough conditions because I know that if I can master the tough conditions it will make me that much better on other conditions.
This is a prime example of how new bowlers are getting brain washed, by bowlers who THINK they know something about the game of bowling. =:^D
Hey T-God how am I being brain washed? I'm just stating the obvious. You obviously think he is a good bowler just because he has been bowling for 30 years and has high average. Like stated before averages don't mean a damn thing. As for bowling for 30yrs...well so what. Anyone can do something for 30yrs and still not be the best at it. Obviously he isn't that good because he can't adjust. I've been lurking on this site since the eteamz days and I know that you are a very good and knowledgeable bowler and I would think that you of all people would know that...adjusting is the name of the game.
I never said I was an expert(or even a good bowler), that I would bowl good on these conditions, or even that it is easy to adjust. But at least I am man enough to admit that I may not be as good as I thought I was instead of just tucking my tail between my legs, quitting, and then going home to cry about it.
Bruce
Edited on 9/17/2003 9:06 PM
Post by: T-GOD on September 18, 2003, 02:35:11 AM
quote:Bruce, if you knew anything about bowling, you'd know that the laneman can screw you to the point of no return. At the flip of a button, he can make any pro average 180..!! There is no adjusting to that.
if you can't adjust then you probably aren't as good as you think you are.
You're not good enough yet or have bowled enough, to know how lane conditions effect scores/your game. So, who are you to tell someone better than you to learn to adjust..? There is a point of no return. You must take a stand at some point.
I'm the one who's been bowing for over 30 years. So, when some newbie says to learn to adjust, I take it personal. =:^D
Post by: bennett on September 18, 2003, 08:58:19 AM
I have to agree with T-God. I don't consider myself an elite bowler, but I have averaged as high as 230 on a house shot.
I've had 300's and 800 series. But so what? The statement of not being able to adjust certainly shows me a thing or two. I've seen Parker Bohn average as low as 179 in a pro tournament. He is an elite bowler. So are you going to say that he isn't any good because he can't adjust? Just look around at some of the scores on the pba qualifying (figure out the averages over 24 game spread sometime) and you'll see some lower averages (well under 200).
Yes, I have bowled on a sport condition so don't ask. It is difficult to adjust on those conditions unless you have a lot of experience and even then you still may not bowl well. I averaged 176 on bone dry conditions. It was a condition that I never bowl on during leagues. It was so dry my plastic ball was hooking like mad. I didn't see too many strikes the whole night. What does that tell you? I guess we are all bad bowlers because we can't adjust....
For others. Yes, I have bowled in other houses and I'm used to oil. I usually bowled in the morning or first shift (sometimes second shift, but there was still plenty of oil). I wanted to try other houses just to try something different. I was expecting oil laid down because every league I got into at least had some oil. My original question in this thread wasn't an attempt to get heated arguments started, but rather ask if this is a trend in your area. I ask because I've noticed the lanes were dry when I bowled on Colorado when I visited my brother and they were dry when I visted Florida when on vacation. I can see I never got my question answered. I can only assume that if big numbers are still being shot, then chances are good you're not bowling on bone dry conditions. Instead most of you are probably bowling with oil laid down and I get slammed because I'm bowling on bone dry conditions.
In addition, I get called stupid for buying good equipment, that a center should cater to one person (not even mentioning that I'm supporting bowling by purchasing this equipment). That's news to me. Asking for a resonable amount of oil is catering to one bowler...lol. Just about every good bowler I know that has hand LOVES OIL. Typically, only the beginners LIKE DRY because in most cases it negates the skill level of the higher average bowler and then they can compete.
So, next time you wonder why bowling is losing members just reflect on this thread and see the treatment you give other bowlers when they have a legitimate complaint. But then again, what do I know. I've only been bowling for 30 years....
Edited on 9/18/2003 9:10 AM
Edited on 9/18/2003 9:14 AM
Edited on 9/18/2003 9:20 AM
Post by: T-GOD on September 18, 2003, 09:16:52 AM
Post by: Bruce on September 18, 2003, 10:51:48 AM
Anyway, I guess in a way I can see where you guys are coming from. Paying good money to bowl on that extreme of a condition would probably make me complain and not come back after I finished out the year. If anything, that condition is terrible for bowling balls...all that friction makes everything track out really quickly. I'm surprised the owner would let the lanes get that bad because being that dry is not good for the lanes either. Any money he is trying to save by not putting out oil is just going to end up having to be used to re-surface the burned out lanes.
Bruce
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 18, 2003, 11:45:01 AM
Since I came to NC 4 years ago I bowled mostly in SENIOR leagues. YES they put LITTLE or NO oil down for the leagues. I've noted it here many times and had ONE logical answer that I've accepted .. that is .. MOST SENIORS USE OLD BALLS .. OIL CAUSES THOSE BALLS TO CAUSE JAMS AND CONSTANT ATTENTION .. THEREFORE LESS OIL IS USED .. that to me sounds logical so I accept it. SENIORS always get DRY lanes.
This year I've switched to (what I'll refer to as) ADULT/MIXED LEAGUES. The allies ALWAYS have oil. My average has jumped from 192 to 206 .. I haven't changed a thing .. HOWEVER THERE IS OIL .. I'm bowling 2 ADULT leagues and the average is 206 in both .. I continued in 2 SENIOR leagues the average is 192 .. what is the difference .. OIL!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: omegabowler on September 18, 2003, 12:03:04 PM
Bennett,
Stay on one league and buy a lane 1 XXXL. You would be able to deliver the definitive word on the lane 1 core. It is a plastic ball.
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Post by: Black_Balled on September 18, 2003, 05:06:26 PM
Post by: bamaster on September 18, 2003, 06:09:28 PM
I quit bowling leagues for the last three years because all I bowled were scratch leagues and was tired of all the complaining from these so-proclaimed scratch-caliber bowlers. Last year a buddy of mine asked if would bowl a league with him and I said, what the heck, why not. It was a scratch league in a house I haven't been to in a long time. Well, here I thought I was a talented PBA bowler and was going to whack 'em.
The lanes were erratic and dry. If you didn't dump it down the 5 board like most of the bowlers did, you had to start it in real deep. Since I have a problem with equipment hooking to much as it is, I was on 5th arrow during practice. I hated the shot. I drilled up a Dyno-thane Crisis and Dyno-thane Barrage just for that house. I finished the league with a 206.
I don't know what bennett bowls like or why he thinks his only option is plastic, but I was able to move in real deep with weak resin and still average over 200 on what I considered a difficult shot. Maybe his new equipment was made for heavy oil? I dunno. Personally, I agree that it's frustrating. But I also think that a competitor would find the challenge in it and learn a B game or C game to make his league night enjoyable. I would at least think it would help my spare game.
Just my personal opinion and it's not meant to offend anyone.
Tony Melendez
http://www.allBowling.com
Post by: charlest on September 18, 2003, 07:17:55 PM
Except for a very few players who do understand bowling, I'm afraid you have a lot of people commenting here with zero empathy and zero TRUE understanding.
AGAIN, while I do not condone quitting after 2 weeks, I empathize and sympathize with your situation.
You have the ability to lock this topic and I think you should because except for few people like basmaster and bones, the feedback you have gotten is not useful as far as I can see.
I suggest you air your views strongly and immediately to the managers of these dumps, you call bowling centers and explain why you are or have quit. Without knowing why, they will assume nothing.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 18, 2003, 07:59:28 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 18, 2003, 08:12:36 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: charlest on September 18, 2003, 08:49:19 PM
quote:
I think you have a VERY controversial topic here .. to lock it out for comments would be VERY SHORT MINDED .. let the topic go until PEOPLE EXHAUST THEMSELVES .. then it will shut down by it self! Getting peoples thoughts is what a forum is about.
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Joe,
I am surprised at you. He has got nothing but grief from too many holier-than-thou people who have more than likely been in close to the same shoes, but whose egos will not allow them to admit it publicly. It is not a matter of a hard condition but of no condition and, for a 3rd time, while I do not condone quitting, I empathize 100% with Bennett's feelings in this matter.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: TOON on September 19, 2003, 12:29:55 AM
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TOON
Post by: Smash49 on September 19, 2003, 12:53:05 AM
Smash49
--------------------
Smash49
robert@bowlersslidesock.com
The Premier II Bowler's Slide Sock is NOW AVAILABLE with adjustable strap!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Post by: T-GOD on September 19, 2003, 02:39:07 AM
quote:Toon, it sounds like he may be bowling at your center..!! Why don't you work out the bugs before you oil the lanes for the league..? If center owners are going to make changes, then they should get all the kinks worked out before leagues start.
As a center owner, LOTS of things colud be wrong. Did they get a new lane machine? maybe they have not worked out the bugs!! Did they change lane finishes? That makes a HUGE difference in how much oil is needed. Is there someone different running the machine? Maybe they did not check the oil level in the machine.
Bowlers shouldn't have to suffer because of the ineptitude of center owners and/or listen to their sorry excuses..!! Why don't you(center owners) learn how to do your job as a laneman, and do it good..? Is that expecting too much..?
Bowlers are complaining because you're not doing your job, so don't be blaming the bowlers for quitting or complaining..!! =:^D
Edited on 9/19/2003 2:52 AM
Post by: Jeffrevs on September 19, 2003, 07:13:25 AM
While bennett's original post does come across kind of like "I'm taking my stuff home and quitting!" .....He does have some very legitimate issues.
He did get ripped a bit, but it wasn't that bad...there were a couple that were pretty heavy, but......
I would have liked to see what kind of responses he would have received if he had worded his original post something like this (this is a modified version of bennetts original post:
I am considering dropping out of 2 bowling leagues already. I'm not a quitter, but I'm really frustrated. Here's the story: No oil ! I couldn’t use any of my new balls due to the house not putting any oil down or a very light coat of oil. I was forced to use my plastic ball just to have a chance to get my ball to the one three pocket last night.
I have yet to hit my average in overall series and I'm getting really frustrated. The mixed league is the only league so far with some oil down. Still, I couldn’t believe the lack of oil in that league despite seeing the machine laying it down just before the league.
Is this a common trend in your area where centers are putting either no oil or little down? I don't think it's right to pay $17/week for bone dry or even moderate dry conditions. This will kill the sport if this continues. Not everybody throws the ball 20 mph!! I don't mind a difficult shot, but a "shot" is all I'm asking for. There is nothing there !
I need to talk with our team and the owners of these centers to see what the problem is. It just doesn't seem right. What are your thoughts?? Any one else have this problem ??
I wonder how something like that would have been received. Not quite as "I'm quitting!" -esque
--------------------
JEFF
"How do you chop the 10 off the 6 ?!?!?!"
Edited on 9/19/2003 7:23 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 19, 2003, 08:38:44 AM
Writing is getting a point across .. what words you use doesn't matter .. I think everyone that read the original post knew that he was UNHAPPY with LANE CONDITIONS .. all those that posted about his health and the balls he bought or the money he spent or even his ability to ADJUST were AVOIDING the issue ..It was quite clear THERE WAS NO OIL .. should the CENTER make these conditions available to a LEAGUE?
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: bennett on September 19, 2003, 08:59:44 AM
I bowled again last night only to be disappointed. Management won't do anything. They kept telling me oil was laid down yet no oil came back on my ball. I bowled last night with my a-hole crack against the ball return all night long, struggled just to hit a 574 series. Yet, I was told this was oil compared to last year from other bowlers on the league. I can't imagine last year! Thanks for seeing my points.
For others,
To those out there that are saying why did I come back? I didn't! This is my first time bowling here and this will be my last season at this center. I've decided to stick this season out because I WANT TO BOWL and I don't want to let my friends down. Am I having fun? NO! In fact one of my teamates is considering the idea of quitting! So, I'm not alone. Bowling on bone dry conditions all season long is crap period! I don't understand why people are constantly saying adjust, just adjust to unbearable conditions. Bowling on bone dry conditions can create problems in your game for cripe sake! You start fluffing the ball, your release gets weaker due to constantly trying to take lift and turn off the ball. Bad habits creep in your game. This is bad for bowling. What's wrong with the idea of having a good coat of oil laid down so those with hand can excel?
Post by: 9andaWiggle on September 19, 2003, 10:11:07 AM
quote:
I would have liked to see what kind of responses he would have received if he had worded his original post something like this (this is a modified version of bennetts original post:
I am considering dropping out of 2 bowling leagues already. I'm not a quitter, but I'm really frustrated. Here's the story: No oil ! I couldn’t use any of my new balls due to the house not putting any oil down or a very light coat of oil. I was forced to use my plastic ball just to have a chance to get my ball to the one three pocket last night.
I have yet to hit my average in overall series and I'm getting really frustrated. The mixed league is the only league so far with some oil down. Still, I couldn’t believe the lack of oil in that league despite seeing the machine laying it down just before the league.
Is this a common trend in your area where centers are putting either no oil or little down? I don't think it's right to pay $17/week for bone dry or even moderate dry conditions. This will kill the sport if this continues. Not everybody throws the ball 20 mph!! I don't mind a difficult shot, but a "shot" is all I'm asking for. There is nothing there !
I need to talk with our team and the owners of these centers to see what the problem is. It just doesn't seem right. What are your thoughts?? Any one else have this problem ??
I wonder how something like that would have been received. Not quite as "I'm quitting!" -esque
I ripped him a little... but probably would not have if he posted along the lines of what you put up there. Personally, I don't care for quitters (if you've ever had 4 guys tell you they'll bowl a league and 3 never show up, or only show up one night then quit with no call or warning, you'll know where I'm coming from). Also, I got the impression maybe his new arsenal didn't match up and he was just upset about that... Anyhow, that's all water under the bridge. He said he's talking to the management and his team about the situation, and this is what he probably should have done in the first place.
Good Luck Bennett.
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: bamaster on September 19, 2003, 11:27:02 AM
quote:
Bowling on bone dry conditions can create problems in your game for cripe sake! You start fluffing the ball, your release gets weaker due to constantly trying to take lift and turn off the ball. Bad habits creep in your game. This is bad for bowling. What's wrong with the idea of having a good coat of oil laid down so those with hand can excel?
Well, I'll politely diagree with you here. Bowling on extreme conditions can only improve you as a bowler. Bowling on a wall, which allows for inconsistent releases and ball speeds, creates bad habits.
Being really good on house conditions will do you no good in the PBA SW Region. Of course, your ambitions may not include bowling on sport patterns anytime soon. I understand that you are frustrated and that's no fun.
Bowling is a you-against-yourself sport. There is no defense, your opponent is bowling on the same garbage as you and should have no impact on how YOU throw YOUR ball. As I said earlier, a competitor will find the competition in this... and as a result find the fun in it. I find satisfaction in knowing I made the best out of a situation and heaven forbid LEARNED something.
If you are not striking as much, you are shooting spares more often. A good spare shooter will always average more than 200. Tell me how many opens you had in your lest set. How many were splits? How many were converted? How can you reduce the number of splits? How can you improve your corner pin sparing? If you are throwing resin at your corners and you are hooking past them... why aren't you throwing plastic or learning to throw a rope at them?
Sometimes we all need to take an honest look at ourselves and ask if we are to blame for not doing better. Should your bowling center be putting down more oil? Maybe. Should a "good" bowler learn to play in the dirt? Certainly.
Food for thought.
Tony Melendez
http://www.allBowling.com
Post by: bennett on September 19, 2003, 11:57:29 AM
quote:
A good spare shooter will always average more than 200.
Please tell me you really didn't mean to say that as an overall statement. I've seen Parker Bohn average 179 over a 24 game block and in that general context we know what you just stated isn't true unless I'm taking something out of context of what you've stated. You can be a good spare shooter and not hit a 200 average.
But, I will answer your question. FYI I made all of my spares. I had a washout (1-2-8-10)that I nearly converted but the head pin flew around the 10 pin. I basically had some splits that kept me from hitting 200 average. In addition, I had 2 solid 9 pin taps that hurt my second game (183). I would have been over 200 had I carried those 9 pins.
I used to be a fabulous spare shooter (when I carried my 210 average). But that was when I threw a hook at my spares except for the 10 pin. Recently this past summer I've been using my plastic ball on ALL spares unless I see a reason to throw a hook at it (e.g. double wood). Centers aren't putting enough oil down and I'm changing to accomodate on my spares. But, this is a big adjustment for me because for years I threw a hook at my left hand and all of my right side spares (except for the 10 pin I would go straight, I'm a right handed bowler). I'm getting used to the plastic ball but it has taken some time.
Post by: Rev_O on September 19, 2003, 12:02:08 PM
The bowling center has given you a reason to practice, DRY CONDITIONS!!
We all might not like the shots we bowl on, but I have NEVER been associated with a bowler that was a QUITTER.
PLEASE DONT DO IT!!WINNERS NEVER QUIT, AND QUITTERS NEVER WIN!!!
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Rev-O
Edited on 9/19/2003 12:28 PM
Post by: bamaster on September 19, 2003, 12:32:23 PM
quote:
Please tell me you really didn't mean to say that as an overall statement. I've seen Parker Bohn average 179 over a 24 game block and in that general context we know what you just stated isn't true unless I'm taking something out of context of what you've stated. You can be a good spare shooter and not hit a 200 average.
Yes, anyone can have a bad set/day/tournament. Because he's a good bowler doens't mean he doesn't go through slumps. Overall, a good spare shooter will average deuce.
See PBIII's profile and his average for the years, and this is on sport patterns. http://www.pba.com/players/playerbio.asp?ID=21
If you are an above average spare shooter, you should finish the season with a 200+ average. If you can learn to stay behind the ball, you can still keep your revs up and get the ball down the lane with a tame backend. If you really want to do better, you'll buy a low-end weak resin ball, like a Dyno-thane Barrage or a Storm Hot Rod, and that'll let you move your feet right and test your accuracy.
Tony Melendez
http://www.allBowling.com
Post by: bennett on September 19, 2003, 12:38:00 PM
I should be able to pick up my ball and see the oil rings all around my ball showing the flare patterns. Then, it would be a fair statement to say a good coat of oil is laid down and everybody has a chance to find a shot (I'm speaking a general house shot). The cranker can play in the center, the stroker down and in and the Tweener a little swing if he/she desires. I would have choices. I could swing it in the center cupping and ripping or flatten my hand out a bit and become a stroker/tweener (which I have done many times). I wouldn't be stuck with a bone dry condition all the time.
Post by: 9andaWiggle on September 19, 2003, 12:45:57 PM
quote:
I bowled last night with my a-hole crack against the ball return all night long, struggled just to hit a 574 series. Yet, I was told this was oil compared to last year from other bowlers on the league.
A lot of people (maybe even some on this site) consider a 190 avg. to be good, even on a cake shot. If you're doing that on a tough shot, why not be proud of your accomplishment?
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: bennett on September 19, 2003, 12:53:54 PM
I'm just starting this season and I think averaging 198, 207 and 176 on the third league can't be judged yet. It is too early yet. When I'm bowling like I'm capable of doing I don't miss too many spares. That's how I hit 210, making my spares and taking the strikes.
I went practicing this past weekend and I did average well over duce over 33 games. In two different houses I averaged 212 (17 games) and 215 (16 games). My high game was 290 for the weekend. I think it is a fair statement to say that I can make my spares. I just need to eliminate creeping high from time to time and avoid those solid taps (e.g. ringing 10's, solid 8's, 9's and hard 7's).
I do have a Barrage and a Hot Wire (want to get the Hot Rod). I shot a 243 with my barrage on the league 2 weeks ago. In addition I shot 258,268,288=814 in a practice session with it just about a month ago. It's a good ball. The Hot wire I used last night. It is drilled to arc with the pin a good 2-3 inches away from the finger hole. I swung it out to the third arrow and that was the best shot I could find. The other weeks I used the Barrage and plastic to go up the boards. This past week I tried something different. I will keep trying.
Post by: bennett on September 19, 2003, 01:04:28 PM
I'm trying to make the best out of this situation. I just won't be back next year. I will look around for another house that doesn't have a problem with laying oil down.
Post by: 9andaWiggle on September 19, 2003, 01:13:41 PM
I want to hear when you shoot 7 in the desert!--------------------
9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: T-GOD on September 19, 2003, 01:44:32 PM
If you like to be around people/places where theres a lack of competance, be my guest. Because in time, it will rub off on you..!! Personally, I will not stand for it and move on. =:^D
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 19, 2003, 03:16:47 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: MWDegutis on September 19, 2003, 04:24:18 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 19, 2003, 04:35:31 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: MWDegutis on September 19, 2003, 04:43:02 PM
Post by: bennett on September 19, 2003, 04:58:37 PM
quote:
I made adjustments on the lanes and changed my hand release to cut down on the hook and shot back-to-back 700's
Big Deal? I bowled a 300 on dry lanes by flattening out my wrist and going up the boards with my white dot before. I did manage to shoot a 243 a couple of weeks ago on dry lanes with my white dot. My point is that I shouldn't have to do this all year long. I DON'T WANT TO BOWL WITH PLASTIC all year long!! Thus my whole point. I want some oil so I can try out some of my other balls (e.g. Storm Eraser, Track Thrash).
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 19, 2003, 06:24:29 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 19, 2003, 07:16:19 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: JoeBowler on September 19, 2003, 07:21:45 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 19, 2003, 07:47:58 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Centers on September 19, 2003, 08:15:27 PM
If Bennett wanted to bowl on a challenging shot, he would join a sport shot league. What Bennett was expecting, was a shot that is playable, mabey so that he can use this mid hooking ball. I mean, does everyone atleast want to bowl decent? Mabey for those of you that want a challange wont see his view because you want to be a better bowler, and make it a step up on your resume. Mabey Bennett just wants to bowl and have fun.
Bennett, where I live, we have 9 bowling alleys, one we cannot bowl because its on a air force base, so I couldnt tell you much about it, except the approaches are so slick, you can ice skate with your bowling shoes. Our only Brunswick house has the only sport shot league in Tucson, and that is a ugly shot that they put out. From what I understand, it's is no where close to a sport shot.
The rest of them have a fair shot, something to play with atleast. So I answer your question about the lanes in my area. I do want to appoligize to Bennett for the commet made about you have bowling there once, I thought I read that you did, and you say you didn't. I'm glad that you said that you aren't going to quit, and ride it out this year. I can understand if all your teamates, or league was going to fold beacause of the lanes because that makes a population of bowlers protesting, and forcing the center to something about it.
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Bowling is just a game.........right?
http://www.gci-net.com/users/s/statsplus/home.htm
Post by: SrKegler on September 19, 2003, 10:36:01 PM
A few years ago I got trapped in a league such as he describes. House wouldn't repair the equipment, breakdowns every nite, would only oil the lanes on Mon/Wed/Fri to save a little money. That was the most miserable 36 weeks of my life. I dreaded having to bowl those nites. I sure wish I'd had his guts back then and quit.
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~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel
Post by: pchee2 on September 20, 2003, 01:23:08 AM
Well, Bennett I'm a grandfather on this site and I need to tell you a few things about people here so that you'll have a better understanding of thier opinions.
First, bowlers are CHEAP and especially BR people. As such, they don't understand why you spend $900 on bowling balls. In fact they don't even make $900 a year. Whereas $900 is a gold mine to them, its merely chump change and pocket lint for others, myself included.
Second, these sissy BR people have no backbones. They are SPINELESS! They are the very same pathetic men (and I use this term loosely) who are married to their wifes (masters) and say "yessssss deeeaaarrrrrrr." They are so p-whipped that their wives boss them around and they take it. Their wives disrespect them and they take it. They get no action from their wives and they are left begging like chumps. They are miserable human beings so to them misery loves company, which brings me to the point at hand. All these people are miserable fishes who feel that you need to join them. Since you quit and stood up for yourself they think that you are acting as if you are "too good" to be with them. So now they try to bash you. They are just jealous that you have balls and they do not.
Third, everyone knows that I love to exercise and that I am a physical enigma of glorious wonderment that chicks cannot resist. They love me and the manliness that radiates from these artistically sculptured toenails! Yes 225 for 10 is a piece of cake for these pythons known as arms. Yes I've benched over 435 in competition weighing in the 180s. No big deal. But what I can't understand is that you mention having problems throwing the ball over 15 mph yet you claim physical prowess of a semi-manly man? HUH? 15 mph is slower than watching grass grow. That is old lady (Roocat) speed. What kind of manly guy who oozes machoness can't throw the ball fast?
Bennett<~~~HeMan in the weight room SheMan in the bowling alley.
I expect more of you because if you are 210 lb of solid muscle then you should be able to throw the ball hard especially after bowling for so long. And since you claim to be an athlete you should be able to rev it up as well. There's no point in being buff if you throw the ball like a cream puff. But not to worry, you are not alone here on BR because Dave Saw Mill claims to be manly (marine of 16 years) yet he too throws the ball like a sissy with no speed and no revs. Are you guys brothers? Sisters?
All in all, great topic and I'd quit league at the drop of a hat if it wasn't worth it for me. Team???? Who cares I do what's right for me.
Peach<~~~as manly as I wanna be.
"If the lanes are sh*t, you need not commit." Johnny Cockjam
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pchee2<~~~strokin the ball with cranker revs and spraying the lanes for an average of a buck 62. This guy is full of STUFF!
Edited on 9/20/2003 3:57 AM
Post by: TR on September 20, 2003, 02:54:08 AM
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"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Ben Franklin
Post by: NOTHUMB on September 22, 2003, 02:38:01 AM
I came in one night in the 2nd half and was bowling against an opponent that I deeply respected. He isnt the best bowler in the world but possibly the smartest. He asked me why I was playing the part of the lane I was playing. I said in an 18 or 19 year olds normal tone of cluelessness "???". I didnt know what I was doing. He said "Hit X board at the arrows, hit X board at the break point". It was the fill ball of the last game---10 in the pit. Amazing. I beat him 2 out of 3 that night. But I felt he beat me because he knew what could be done to beat the shot---he just wasnt able to do it, whereas I was able to beat the shot and I didnt know how.
Learn something (no matter the age). Deal with it. Bowl. Dont quit.
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Only Losers Feel Pressure
www.ct2001.com
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 22, 2003, 05:35:24 PM
9/17/2003 2:13 PM
9/17/2003 3:59 PM
9/19/2003 8:59 AM
In general he states:
For the first 3 weeks they were bone dry and it won’t change. In fact that league used to have 38 teams. The captain now says they are down to just 16 teams. So, people are quitting for those who say I’m the only one quitting. You’re dead wrong.
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: bennett on September 23, 2003, 10:29:11 AM
People are complaining as the high series so far is only a 605. So I don’t sit alone on this. I don’t think a lack of competence is the issue as there are others with 200+ averages. Why are we all down in average? That’s so easy to say, lack of competence and just adjust when you’re not witnessing what I’m witnessing. I’m not talking just dry, I mean bone dry.
I have bowled on a sport shot and I expect the scores to be down in comparison to everybody else. However, when I join a league I feel the house has a responsibility to lay some oil down when you’re paying $17.00/night.
For dry lanes: I have bowled on them long enough to know what I need to do to bowl well on them. Typically, I bowl well on dry lanes when I can take my plastic ball, with more speed than usual and play up the boards (whatever line that may be). I’ve learned this the hard way time and time again over the years. So, when my ball is still hooking like mad up the boards (with a full roller type release) with my plastic ball, I know I may as well go home. That’s just something I know about my game when I bowl on dry lanes. If it is that dry, nothing will usually work for me and I accept that at face value. I had dry lanes this summer in practice. I tried swinging it inside with a variety of balls and all I got was an over/under situation. I pulled out my plastic ball and played up the boards and suddenly I was shooting 200 games one after another. So, I do know how to bowl on dry, but I’ve done it so often over the years that I know if I can’t play up the boards on a bone dry condition with my plastic ball, then chances are good there won’t be a shot out there for me. I can search all I want, but this is what I’ve found out over the years. What works for some of you (e.g. you can swing it on dry) won’t work for me. How many more times do I need to try it? I know my game better than that.
I don’t know much about this pchee character, but having an upper body strength doesn’t mean that I can’t throw harder, I just don’t due to my style that I employed 30 years ago when the game was a finesse type of game. Sure I could ram it down there 20+mph, but then I would probably average a buck 62. If upper body strength played a factor, then all of your bodybuilders could throw a baseball 120 mph. Pretty stupid thinking to me if you ask. Look how small Pete Weber is. In is time, he threw one of the meanest cranker balls, yet he weighs only 140 lbs. I doubt if he can bench press 350. It proves nothing.
Edited on 9/23/2003 10:40 AM