it really comes down to specific core/cover combo on the right conditions. it will be different for everyone. for me the original eruption or nomad dagger both with the polish taken off had the right combo of angularity and control but for someone else it could be a gb2 or black widow or vg nano in general more angular does mean less control just because those types of balls are more oil (or friction) sensitive

I would like to just make sure I understand the terms a little bit before I put place an opinion.

1.  Angular  means a sharp breakpoint, not very rounded.
2.  Over Under means to me when I miss outside it doesn't recover on a top hat and when I pull inside it rapidly crosses over.

In general I find that my more angular equipment can hit harder under circumstances where I can find the pocket.  However if there are big backends a nice rounded look will often carry even better by hitting lighter and getting the 1 pin heading to the 7 pin for righties.  Or the 1 pin chasing pins towards the 10 pin for lefties..

However on a side to side wet dry with some carrydown it is surprising to me how much I often like skid snappy type pearls.  Or strongly drilled solid assymetrics.  These strongly drilled pearls or solid assymetrics can often supply miss room from inside the pattern that allows push and tug!

They also supply hit and squaring up to the pocket. 

My observation of others that have over under is frequently too weakly drilled equipment for the condition and their rev rate/speed matchup.  Or too little surface
for the condition.

Lately I have seen a lot of bowlers with over/under with the IQ tour series frequently drilled with the pin to far from the PAP for these low diff balls.

My favorite use of these types of aggressive equipment is the side to side top hat with medium drilled positions.  Examples that are explosive but have a path to the pocket lately on many days for me are a 4 5/8 pin to pap Freakn Frantic.  Also a 4 7/8 pin to pap Pyramid Chosen Path Assymetric with a strong MB position!  This on a very harsh side to side wet dry, with slop going down in front of the pocket quickly.

Though the moves are not smooth but the necessary hit is supplied and recovery and some tug area are available if the shot is aggressively pursued! 

This on a shot many talk of mucho over under.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I see the Zero Gravity as a great choice for a solid assymetric also on today's top hats with surface reduction.
PPS there also other tools to reduce over under....

Thanks for the replies so far.  Here's where I'm coming from on this....I have a dull asym - nice when there is enough head oil.  And a smooth arcing semi-shiny  symmetric, control drill - nice for when the backends are jumping.  Med/Low Revs and Speed matched, Med/Hi Rotation and Tilt, Left side.

The ball I'm trying to come up with would be one that gets through the heads clean like the symmetric, but has a much stronger finish than that ball, for when the heads are lighter, but the backends are not jumping.  I am just trying to avoid a ball that is super skid/flip, that is harder to control - it sounds like a 4000 surface would help with this.

What about a strong, satin finished (4000) pearl or hybrid symmetric core designed(higher rg?) and drilled to be angular at the end for this situation? 

Any other advice is appreciated.

Itsallaboutme,

Yes you are technically and completely correct.

Over under is exactly as you described.  I also see quite a bit of the other....as I described it for other bowlers in places I bowl.  I guess that would be under/over!  As I had described it.

I often believe the condition that causes it is under drilling some of todays weaker cores! 

Neither condition is something I like to see when I am bowling.

As a former some form of pretty good golfer I saw the same often caused by a grip that didn't allow a golfer to draw when swinging inside out.  Shots to the right went further right or sliced and shots to the left keep hooking.  Think Tiger lately!

So it is with lack of surface and lack of use of flare potential when going to play the slot in the pattern.

If those elements are right....so fun.  Miss area both ways.  If not right....large dispersion away from the pocket!  Blah!

If the ideal slot in the pattern is strongly away from the pocket as played by the best bowlers in the house it is nice to watch assyms and stong recovery balls at the backend and proper surface and flare to get the ball to square up! 

If the pattern does not call for that then other setups work nicely.

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS as I think now from observing and from reading some old pieces on Columbias older website a lot of over under as described by Itallabouthim is caused by using too weak equipment or too weakly drilled equipment and maybe playing too close to the oil line and the hard friction to the outside which is present.

You also have to keep in mind of obtainable angles or ones that the bowler can actually play...bowlers are still the largest factor in creating angularity, the equipment merely enhances a bowlers attributes...
When the bowler has conditioner away from the pocket and friction to inside of the target means the bowler is improperly lined up...

What most miss is that the reason why you are forced in is due to a lack of conditioner in the lay down area yet still conditioner in the mid lane...the bowler uses a ball that gets thru the fronts, hydroplanes thru the mids and never sees the back part of the lane or friction...I tend to use a combo of cover, surface, layout and a weight hole all used to create the proper phases of reaction to conquer the condition...not merely just a bowling ball

If you want a symmetric with more flip, then the Motiv Octane may be the perfect choice. I have one with a pin up drilling that I took up to 6000-8000 grit and it is definitely what you describe (great out of the box too, but I needed more length).

I also have a Primal Rage and it is good as well. Stronger in the oil than the Octane though. I've played around with the surface with it some and I think it definitely needs polish as well. Taking mine back in tonight to have the surface tweaked. Not seeing nearly enough oil to have it dull (even at 3000 grit).

I would say that a lot of Motiv balls might suit what you are looking for. I've switched to primarily throwing them and what I have found is that the newer coverstocks definitely promote flippiness. Even some of their "smoother" pieces are really strong off the spot. And most of their cores are symmetrical.