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Author Topic: USBC rule amendment possibility?  (Read 1592 times)

HamPster

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USBC rule amendment possibility?
« on: August 04, 2009, 08:47:15 AM »
Yeah, I know I won't shut up about it, I'm like a freakin chihuahua when I get going on something, I just sit here and quiver with excitement at stuff that wouldn't get so much as a blink out of a ten year old . .  Anyway, I'm halfway decent at this ambidextrous stuff, and I'm really kinda peeved that there's a rule against bowling with both hands in the same set.  Now, I understand this is most likely for handicapping purposes to prevent sandbagging or average padding.  What I was wondering is if the USBC would even consider an amendment to this rule with the following conditions:

Any average compiled where the bowler uses or provides the required documentation stating their intent to use both hands (one at a time, excludes two handed bowling, see applicable rule for two handed bowling for clarification) will be on a scratch basis, waiving any and all handicap typically received in any event or league where handicap is used and applied, unless rule is waived by that specific league or tournament.  

Documentation of the bowler's intent to participate in any league or tournament using both hands as described above must be provided along with a copy of the USBC rule stating the above provision, and signed in the presence of a qualifying league/tournament official or local association member upon entry to league/tournament.  Failure to do so could result in a loss of all prize monies received for league/tournament.  


I know that doesn't help anybody else out there with a lower than scratch average that wants to use both, but then again, I don't know many people who would really want to use both hands other than to improve their average, the sandbaggers already do it with one hand so why spend extra money on equipment and shoes to sandbag with both?  I would sincerely like the option available.  Say your shot burns up, or say the approach for one hand or the other is tacky or slick, or say your timing is off with one hand, or just think about picking up a 7 or 10 pin with the opposite hand?  They can't say it would be an unfair advantage.  Guys that rev it more and throw harder than me have an advantage on a house shot already, or guys that are more accurate . . the rule does open things wide up for anybody who wants to add the skill.  Kinda feel like it's unfairly limiting.  ESPECIALLY with leagues or tournaments that are already bowled scratch.  

But yes, I get that if somebody really wants to take it that serious, why not just go pro?  I think that's kind of a dumb question though, gotta practice it in "cheaper" environments and work up from there first.  How would I go about petitioning for the rule addition?  And who else has additional ideas or positive or negative points on this?  I'm sure I don't have it all thought through.
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MI 2 AZ

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 05:54:40 PM »
I understand why it would not be allowed in any kind of handicapped event, but I've always felt that it should be allowed in scratch bowling.  To me it would be just another adjustment.  I'm sure that there is something that I am missing though.




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Atochabsh

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2009, 06:41:52 PM »
First thing you'd have to do is present your preposal to your local association.  Then your local association, if it agrees, can present your preposal (now the association's preposal) to the delegates at the National Convention.  Keeping in mind that there are deadlines for getting preposals in and you will need a rationale to your preposal.  Then if the preposal gets to the delegates its voted on and if it receives a 2/3 majority you get your wish.  

Since the local association is the one that has to deal constantly with sandbagging and average issues and this switching hands is a common way sandbaggers work, that will be your toughest hurdle.  Your rationale for allowing this has to be better then the rationale for not allowing i.e. sandbagging.  

Since only a small portion of the population is truely ambidexterous, I'm not sure the rule can be considered "limiting".  But if you want to fight for it, go for it.  

Erin

HamPster

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2009, 07:31:47 PM »
Thanks for the info.  I figured with that provision about not being able to use handicap if you choose to bowl with both hands, I don't really see what argument people could use against it.  

quote:
First thing you'd have to do is present your preposal to your local association.  Then your local association, if it agrees, can present your preposal (now the association's preposal) to the delegates at the National Convention.  Keeping in mind that there are deadlines for getting preposals in and you will need a rationale to your preposal.  Then if the preposal gets to the delegates its voted on and if it receives a 2/3 majority you get your wish.  

Since the local association is the one that has to deal constantly with sandbagging and average issues and this switching hands is a common way sandbaggers work, that will be your toughest hurdle.  Your rationale for allowing this has to be better then the rationale for not allowing i.e. sandbagging.  

Since only a small portion of the population is truely ambidexterous, I'm not sure the rule can be considered "limiting".  But if you want to fight for it, go for it.  

Erin

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Atochabsh

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2009, 08:18:04 PM »
quote:
I don't really see what argument people could use against it.  


We have a continuous group of bowlers that switch back and forth depending on which league they are bowling in.  And they hit about 3 tournaments a month (not always in our association) using their off hand average in handicap tournaments.  Most of these bowlers have been officially rerated in the past for prior sandbagging and this is just another way they are trying to get around the rules to make money.  Its a big problem.  

Erin

HamPster

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2009, 09:32:08 PM »
Yeah, I get that, I'm just saying with the provision about scratch only, I don't see what somebody could say about that.  My wife did say something about team handicap leagues.  I thought maybe a provision that makes your average a 220 minimum for handicap figuring purposes or something.
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nd300

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2009, 09:43:23 PM »
I remember the old rules,but have they changed???
 I thought that if you had the separate averages for the separate hands,you had to declare what hand you were going to use that night(and the consequent average for that hand) and could NOT switch until all competition you were bowling in that night (or block of games or whatever)were over.
 I understand your idea. The hole in it,if you will, would be that a good bowler would be able to see that if the right side was going through a bad carrydown,he/she could switch and be able to go to fresh conditions and get around the conditions that single handed bowlers had to bowl in. You'd probably hear complaining till the cows come home in a money tourney if a "switch hand bowler", struggling like everyone else with said carrydown(or whatever),switched hands and was able to post a good score and walk away with the money.
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Atochabsh

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2009, 09:46:20 PM »
USBC says that for tournaments you use your highest applicable average. Doesn't say anything about hands.  So it doesn't matter if you declare what hand you are going to use, the tournament committee can use your highest average.

Erin

JohnP

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2009, 10:20:44 AM »
As I understand the existing rule (haven't gone back and read it), if you want to bowl a league with your "off" hand or switch during the season, that has to be approved by the league.  Then you establish a new average with that hand (and using only that hand).  There would be a distinction in the name, such as "Joe Bowler RH" versus "Joe Bowler LH".  To use your off hand in a tournament, you would have to use your established off hand average.  --  JohnP

Edited on 8/5/2009 5:31 PM

HamPster

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2009, 10:31:01 AM »
Yeah, I use RH or LH next to my name.  I've bowled lefty because of injuries before, but never for an entire season.  And if a tournament is going rough and I have the ability to switch hands and totally get around the burn . . I don't see how that's any different than someone being able to play straight up 3, or 6th arrow.  Some people don't move well, some people can play every board on the lane, I don't see what the difference is in me using two hands to do that.
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Oskuposer

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2009, 10:37:31 AM »
The way I see it is what fingers you put in the ball determine what hand.  Guess another reason why im not going to be sanctioned this year.
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Nor Cal Bowler

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2009, 11:18:11 AM »
quote:
quote:
I don't really see what argument people could use against it.  


We have a continuous group of bowlers that switch back and forth depending on which league they are bowling in.  And they hit about 3 tournaments a month (not always in our association) using their off hand average in handicap tournaments.  Most of these bowlers have been officially rerated in the past for prior sandbagging and this is just another way they are trying to get around the rules to make money.  Its a big problem.  

Erin


lol I know of two right off the top of my head!!
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HamPster

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2009, 02:37:55 PM »
Lol, I'll get right to work on that . .  I just came back to the site a month ago, so I haven't heard much out of him yet.  Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention?

quote:
Can you also ask for a rule banning Rev-O from panning for handouts for his friends and FIGJAMMING every honor score he gets? Let me know if you get that approved, thanks.

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pin-chaser

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Re: USBC rule amendment possibility?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2009, 04:04:40 PM »
Get rid of handicap.. it does not work... everyone bowl scratch with one hand, two hands, kicking it... I dont care. Lets bowl
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