Post by: oracle3410 on March 19, 2004, 12:58:18 AM
14lbs 1 oz
Pin 3 3/8
CG 4 1/2
I need some help on any way to get more revs on it. I'm desperate :-/
Post by: Rock77 on March 19, 2004, 04:18:54 PM
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"I am the most consistent bowler in my house....
I consistently SUCK!!"
Post by: bygnel on March 19, 2004, 04:19:33 PM
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FALL, DAMN YOU FALL!!! "I'm so tired of being a wannabe league bowler.. I WANNA BE A LEAGUE BOWLER!!"
Post by: oracle3410 on March 19, 2004, 04:24:34 PM
The reason I don't have a profile is because without a consistent shot, I'd have nothing to put there.
With the cupped wrist, at the bottom of the swing, where does the hand go, should it be going 'through' the ball, or almost pulling up off the side?
With my previous ball, I'd consider myself a stroker, it was a 13lb ball, so i had a little easier time of getting revs on it, but not enough to get me out of the 'very low revs' category..
Edited on 3/19/2004 5:18 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on March 19, 2004, 04:24:51 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: oracle3410 on March 19, 2004, 04:26:49 PM
I was bowling close to the 3rd shift, so the lanes should have been shot enough to get some sort of reaction, but without the revs, it doesn't know where to go when it grips midlane
That second tip seems to help.. especially the freeze frame.. i think i'm bringing my hand around a bit too early, meaning my wrist hand is already on the side of the ball by the time it gets to the line... i think i need to adjust that..
Edited on 3/19/2004 5:24 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on March 19, 2004, 04:34:39 PM
Lack of energy. Cover is too strong for the condition.
Wait to use it when lanes are MORE oily!
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: oracle3410 on March 19, 2004, 04:38:30 PM
Post by: hotwire13 on March 19, 2004, 04:52:24 PM
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Erik Olsen - e13ez85@hotmail.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on March 19, 2004, 04:57:21 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
Wait for oil!
Post by: hotwire13 on March 19, 2004, 05:19:03 PM
get a ball for dryer lanes - try and add revs onto your release so u will get more backend with a less agressive ball because the ball will slide through the lane until it reaches the backend. to increase revs, you need to get more "fingers" into the ball. when u release, dont just guide the ball down onto the lane. you want to create power with your fingers by "flipping" the ball out of your hand. try and get videos or pictures of high rev players releasing the ball. you will see that alot of their power comes from their fingers creating the revolutions...your thumb is just there for control and to hold onto the ball until release. if you get more power into your shots with your fingers, u should be able to get more reaction and a more consistent turn on the ball. then again, i have never seen u throw a ball.
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Erik Olsen - e13ez85@hotmail.com
Post by: michelle on March 19, 2004, 06:18:07 PM
Post by: oracle3410 on March 19, 2004, 07:40:28 PM
Second, Michelle.
You suggested getting a heavier ball, I did.
I looked into used equipment in my area, and there wasn't anything that was going to work for me. Buying a used ball off the FS/FT forum would have been just as expensive as buying this ball (factoring in shipping and re-drilling).
I purchased a 100 dollar ball known for a smooth, controllable arc.
I posted http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=48425&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5 asking for opinions on balls, and looked into reviews of each and every ball suggested in that thread (all in 14#, as you suggested)
I asked the opinion of several pro shop owners, and they suggested the same thing. I'm a little offended that you seem to think I 'disregarded guidance' when I'm here asking questions and trying to learn. My understood definition of "rolling out" was obviously wrong, and after the explanation in this thread, I've got an accurate definition.
I purposely stepped back from several balls based on the fact that they had too high of a hook rating, and the fact that you seem to think I purchased equipment without proper research really puts a bad taste in my mouth about this forum's way of dealing with new(er) bowlers.
To the others in this thread, I thank you for your advice and help, and have learned alot reading this thread.
I'll think twice before posting another question.
Edited on 3/19/2004 8:35 PM
Post by: Juggernaut on March 19, 2004, 08:16:34 PM
Don't jump off the bandwagon too quickly. Experienced bowlers (myself included) tend to think newbies understand much more than some of them do, and we take things for granted when we refer to "roll out" or "preffered spin axis" or any number of other terms we deal with when trying to decide on our next purchase.
We have several balls (usually) and are filling small niches and tend to forget some folks only (only?) have one or two balls and don't have experience on a myriad of lane conditions. It can very easily be mistaken for indifference on our part. We know what we are talking about and just figure you do also.
In reference to your post, cupping your wrist is the quickest and most efficient way of producing more revs on your ball. Hand position and timing (hitting) the ball can also be useful tools to create more revs.
You must also realize that some people will ALWAYS put more on the ball than others and that it is not always how much you get on the ball, but in how the ball utilizes the energy that you have given it upon release. I will try to explain it like this.
A slick ball, (ie.. plastic or pearl urethane) will, under normal conditions, burn less energy on it's path down the lane due to the lesser friction created by the ball and the lane surface. If you put 20 units of energy in one of these ball, and because of the low friction, it only uses up 15 units, it will still have 5 units of enrgy in the roll/hook of the ball. It will still be trying to hook and roll because it will still have stored energy in it.
A friction ball, (ie.. dull urethane, reactives, or particles) will, under normal conditions, burn more energy on it's path down the lane due to the increased friction created by the ball and the lane surface. If you put the same 20 units of energy in the ball, and because of increased friction, it burns it all up at 50 feet, it will "roll out" and be dead on arrival at the pins.
The only cure is to find a way to impart more enrgy at the release point, or find a ball/fix the ball so that it does not burn up all the energy created by your natural release.
I have been bowling since 1980. My first years average was a whopping 120 and this year it is 228 on sundays. It takes time to learn the little things, but it can be rewarding when done properly!
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Just call me Darreyl, it's much easier to say!
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on March 19, 2004, 11:13:08 PM
Who needs revs with the equipment we have today? Answer me that.
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-Jeremy Vitug
MFBSB!!!
Post by: BornToBowl on March 19, 2004, 11:22:35 PM
I think that you might be grabbing your ball too tight. I had the same problem when I first started bowling. Try letting the ball go earlier and also relax. Don't cup your wrist to the point where it is cup like a right angle. Just make sure it's straight and not broken; don't try to concentrate your strength on keeping your wrist cup. Try a pendulum swing and relax.
Hope this help,
~Patrick
Post by: michelle on March 20, 2004, 09:26:15 AM
Just because a ball is rated at some number does not mean it is going to move that much on every condition or that every bowler is going to see the same movement. Some bowlers can manipulate there releases to make the same ball go straight as a board or cover all of the lane. Covering boards is not the be-all end all to this sport...
In this instance, you finally acknowledged you were bowling on lanes that were probably what most consider toast...not a condition where you want a ball that is particle in nature (which is what the pro-actives are). Using a ball that is too strong for the condition does not allow the ball to work to its potential.
I still have to wonder how many of those pro-shop owners saw you throw a ball. If they did not watch you throw a few shots, then any advise or drilling on new equipment is potentially inaccurate and you were done a dis-service.
The suggestion that was offered in the other thread still stands as a primary issue that should be followed...invest in a few hours of quality coaching. Trying to increase revs without some form of coaching is likely to contribute to poor mechanics. It is certainly possible to develop a game without coaching, but it is a more difficult road (I know because that was the road I took, and helps to explain some of the unorthodox approach I have [as those that have seen me on the road can attest]).
Post by: oracle3410 on March 20, 2004, 11:26:02 AM
I understand the concept of lane conditions affecting the way a ball reacts, etc. It doesn't change the fact that I would like to add more revs to my game. This was the first 5 games with this ball (i'm planning going today and shooting another 4). I'm not asking to throw 30 to 5 and back in, I'm asking to get more than 5 boards reaction out of the ball. I understand some of that is due to the lane conditions, but I also understand that without a proper amount of rotation on the ball (excuse my lack of 'proper' terminology), that reaction will not get too terribly better even with the proper oil.
I'll look into coaches in my area, but as I've said in other threads, there are very few centers in my area, and online research has produced one coach, 3 hours west (too far for me to travel).
Post by: michelle on March 20, 2004, 12:38:11 PM
quote:
As I said in my previous reply, coming into this thread, I had the wrong idea of what "rolling out" was, (being that "rolling out" was when the ball hooked past your target, coming in brooklyn or off the lane completely) after it was explained to me, I understood what they were saying.
Your previous reply came AFTER I had made my comments...there was nothing prior to my response that suggested you were listening to what was being put forth by anyone in the thread.
quote:
I'll look into coaches in my area, but as I've said in other threads, there are very few centers in my area, and online research has produced one coach, 3 hours west (too far for me to travel).
Ask the centers near you who is doing any sort of coaching...not everyone that instructs is going to show up on a web search. There are decent coaches that don't believe in having to go through all the certification stuff...and by asking around the houses near you, you may very well find someone that knows their stuff that will work with you for the cost of lineage and a beer or burger.
Post by: oracle3410 on March 20, 2004, 12:46:36 PM
I'm done having this argument with you. I hope people continue to give helpful suggestions. I have printouts of all the sites and tips people gave me sitting in my bowling bag. I'm going bowling now, I'll let you folks know how practice goes. Thanks
Post by: Shaggy on March 20, 2004, 02:00:21 PM
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You will not see me on the PBA Tour, but I love the game!!!
Post by: michelle on March 20, 2004, 02:14:31 PM
quote:
Who is calista flockhart ???
she played Ally McBeal and seemed anorexic at the beginning of the show...she became even more tiny as the show went on. However, her 15 minutes of fame seem to have been up...haven't heard anything more about her since that show until this thread title...
Post by: LuckyLefty on March 20, 2004, 02:59:27 PM
Regarding your question Oracle. It would amaze you the difference if you had a powergroove REACTIVE pearl on this condition. Your retained energy would be phenomenal even with your current revs.
You might even experience your old version of Roll out(past the proper breakpoint with this ball).
The simplest little training book I ever saw on throwing hood and revs is a little $5 dollar booklet called, "How to Throw strikes" by
Dawson Taylor. He was a good old time bowler and also co wrote a well known book with Earl Anthony.
Often when people would say to me, "How do you throw such a big hook?" (I don't really I was just slow in speed"). I would pull this book out.
In it Mr. Taylor shows some little training things to do to develop hook right at home! I used it when after an injury I went from right to left!
It works, it's cheap, and it can be done at home. At some bookstores.
Very tiny book, don't blink you may miss it.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Get a Reactive power groove, see retained energy.
Post by: oracle3410 on March 20, 2004, 03:13:44 PM
i don't have the wrist strength to do a 14 pound ball at the moment, so I'm either going to sell it or just put it away for now. which leaves me back in the same same boat as i was before...