Post by: MelvinBrunsTrack on November 07, 2006, 04:38:44 AM
Thank you
Post by: shelley on November 07, 2006, 12:58:53 PM
Basically, starting top weight is how much heavier the top half of the ball is than the bottom half. If you put the CG at the north pole and cut at the equator, the top half would be TW heavier. Higher tops generally go longer and have more backend than lower tops.
SH
Post by: MI 2 AZ on November 07, 2006, 02:55:31 PM
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________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
I just want 2C was'zzub.
Edited on 11/7/2006 3:50 PM
Post by: T-GOD on November 07, 2006, 03:19:59 PM
Post by: BrunsNick on November 07, 2006, 03:23:18 PM
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-06
http://www.BrunsNick.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: shelley on November 07, 2006, 03:52:24 PM
quote:
Pounds vs oz. there is no match.
Take the lead weights off the wheels of your car if you believe that. Static weights become dynamic when you impart spin to the ball.
SH
Post by: BrunsNick on November 07, 2006, 03:58:20 PM
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-06
http://www.BrunsNick.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: BrunsNick on November 07, 2006, 04:07:20 PM
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Nick Smith ... A.K.A. Les Badderâ„¢
Brunswick -=- PBA 03-06
http://www.BrunsNick.com
¡Viva la nación de Brunswick!
Post by: Strapper_Squared on November 07, 2006, 04:20:08 PM
quote:
Take the lead weights off the wheels of your car if you believe that. Static weights become dynamic when you impart spin to the ball.
Totally different comparison... but even so,
At what speed do you feel drastically out of balance tires?
30 mph? maybe 40 mph?
Making an assumption of tire size (diameter is 25 inches):
30 mph = 400 rpms
40 mph = 530 rpms
Based on this, the only people that may see an effect from a drastic imbalance are people with rev rates over 400 rpms...
Again, this is only IF (and a big if) imbalance in a car tire acurately describes imbalance in a bowling ball (That just sounds rediculous typing it... LOL).
Top weight. Its purpose to to keep equipment within USBC limits after drilling holes (i.e. removing weight from the top of the ball). If the cg is shifted, it determines where and how large of a weight hole is necessary to make the ball legal within USBC limits. Otherwise, it has an exceedingly small to no effect on ball reaction (IMO).
S^2
S^2
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Joe Theismann idiot quote of the week:
"He's a standing statue."
Like there is any other kind of statue?
Post by: shelley on November 07, 2006, 04:25:45 PM
quote:
Based on this, the only people that may see an effect from a drastic imbalance are people with rev rates over 400 rpms...
That doesn't take into account the fact that the weights on a tire are measured in grams while the tire's weight may 30#. Side weight in a bowling ball is a much, much larger fraction of the overall weight.
SH
Post by: StormTechDept on November 07, 2006, 04:44:52 PM
quote:Based on this, the only people that may see an effect from a drastic imbalance are people with rev rates over 400 rpms...
quote:
Tell that to a little kid, throwing a plasitc ball, 6lbs at 5 mph and 1 ounce of sideweight(Illegal) or even 1/2 ounce side (legal). Even if they throw the ball with 0 degree's tilt and 0 degree's rotation, that ball will take off! I would say the lighter the ball, the slower you throw it, the more difference you'll see.
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Bowl up a STORM!!!!!
Storm Tech Dept
tech@stormbowling.com
Post by: Strapper_Squared on November 07, 2006, 05:14:03 PM
quote:
We have done CATS testing on the ball's overall reaction with different static weights and the results showed no measurable difference of ball reaction. There were far greater reaction differences involved by the bowler's inconsistency of ball speed, rev rate, axis rotation and tilt. The greatest reaction differences came when altering the surface friction of the coverstock.
So we have Brunswick that states statics have no influence and made a video demonstrating it. We have tests from bb.com stating that statics have no measurable effect and have CATS data to back up their claim. Yet you keep insisting that statics have an influence on ball reaction. Ante up your proof. Do the math..make the video..whatever it takes..give us some proof. Hit us with some scientific data (by the way, "I think.." or "for me it makes a difference" doesn't cut it)...
S^2
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Joe Theismann idiot quote of the week:
"He's a standing statue."
Like there is any other kind of statue?
Edited on 11/7/2006 6:06 PM
Post by: Djarum on November 08, 2006, 09:03:29 PM
quote:
Taken from bowlingball.com:quote:
We have done CATS testing on the ball's overall reaction with different static weights and the results showed no measurable difference of ball reaction. There were far greater reaction differences involved by the bowler's inconsistency of ball speed, rev rate, axis rotation and tilt. The greatest reaction differences came when altering the surface friction of the coverstock.
So we have Brunswick that states statics have no influence and made a video demonstrating it. We have tests from bb.com stating that statics have no measurable effect and have CATS data to back up their claim. Yet you keep insisting that statics have an influence on ball reaction. Ante up your proof. Do the math..make the video..whatever it takes..give us some proof. Hit us with some scientific data (by the way, "I think.." or "for me it makes a difference" doesn't cut it)...
S^2
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Joe Theismann idiot quote of the week:
"He's a standing statue."
Like there is any other kind of statue?
Edited on 11/7/2006 6:06 PM
I have two questions if it doesn't make a difference.
1) Why do I see pros have two identical balls with identical surfaces with different drills where the pin distance was exactly the same, but the static weight was different?
2) I have seen it change a balls reaction first hand for dry lanes. I had a friend drill up a pure hammer with a 4" pin to pap with a good bit of thumb weight. The ball died too early. He drilled another one up with just short of a 4" pin to pap with 3/4 once finger weight, and it went about 3 feet longer.
I think it does play an effect the more friction you have.
Dj
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The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.
Post by: T-GOD on November 09, 2006, 11:38:09 AM
You can see a difference in ball reaction when you place balance holes in it. The same hold true for differences in top weight/statics/ending CG whatever you want to call it.
Physics is physics. If the ending heavy spot of the ball is different, whether a balance hole is used or not, the ball will react differently..!! It may be minimal to your eyes or others eyes, or it may be enough that you can see the difference, but in either case, there WILL BE A DIFFERENCE.
If you're not good enough to see the difference, that's OK. But don't try to tell others that there is no difference when we can see it. Even if it's minimal, like a 2-5%, I'll take the advantage everytime. =:^D
Post by: KMAN300 on November 09, 2006, 11:57:39 AM
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Its just a game? Yeah Right! 2nd place is the 1st loser
Post by: Strapper_Squared on November 09, 2006, 11:59:04 AM
quote:
If you're not good enough to see the difference, that's OK. But don't try to tell others that there is no difference when we can see it. Even if it's minimal, like a 2-5%, I'll take the advantage everytime. =:^D
You kill me. Outside of "I can see a difference," you have not one shred of proof to validate your claim. Nothing. Yet you insist you are right. I am going to take a leap here and say that if the CATS system didn't detect any differences in skid, break point, entry angle, etc, etc between two balls with different static weights (that according to you should react drastically different), then there is likely no difference in reaction. Do me a favor.. drill up two symmetrical core balls, same pin position, different cg positions. Go to Reno during the tournament and throw both on the CATS systems and see for yourself.. that is of course unless the CATS system is baised against statics as well...
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Joe Theismann idiot quote of the week:
"He's a standing statue."
Like there is any other kind of statue?
Post by: leftehh- LG on November 09, 2006, 12:16:47 PM
quote:
BrunsNick, once again, YOU'RE WRONG..!!
You can see a difference in ball reaction when you place balance holes in it. The same hold true for differences in top weight/statics/ending CG whatever you want to call it.
Physics is physics. If the ending heavy spot of the ball is different, whether a balance hole is used or not, the ball will react differently..!! It may be minimal to your eyes or others eyes, or it may be enough that you can see the difference, but in either case, there WILL BE A DIFFERENCE.
If you're not good enough to see the difference, that's OK. But don't try to tell others that there is no difference when we can see it. Even if it's minimal, like a 2-5%, I'll take the advantage everytime. =:^D
yeah.. the difference youll see maybe 1-board or less.
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Bowl to Win!
Post by: T-GOD on November 09, 2006, 03:18:05 PM
quote:...and how much of a difference is there between leaving a 10 pin and not leaving one..? You guys kill me..!! =:^D
yeah.. the difference youll see maybe 1-board or less.
Post by: Laybzz74 on November 09, 2006, 03:21:42 PM
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**** Official "L/LM ball junkie" ****
Man, I LOVE this game; and I love it even more now that I'm using LEGENDS/LaneMasters equipment !!!
"Master the Lanes with Legendary hitting power" !!!
Robb in O'Fallon, IL 62269 (near Scott AFB)
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Post by: leftehh- LG on November 09, 2006, 03:25:17 PM
quote:quote:...and how much of a difference is there between leaving a 10 pin and not leaving one..? You guys kill me..!! =:^D
yeah.. the difference youll see maybe 1-board or less.
I take that back, LESS than a board.
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Bowl to Win!
Post by: qstick777 on November 09, 2006, 03:49:16 PM
I know that I had a ball with a full ounce of side weight, and I could not get the ball to turn. When I had that side weight reduced to a half ounce, the ball reacted much better.
Of course, that is only me, and I'm sure it had more to do with my inconsistencies with speed, tilt, etc.
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Post by: Strapper_Squared on November 09, 2006, 03:50:10 PM
quote:
...and how much of a difference is there between leaving a 10 pin and not leaving one..? You guys kill me..!! =:^D
And you can accurately repeat shots (speed, lauch angle, rev rate, and target) to notice a difference of 1 board...
please...
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Joe Theismann idiot quote of the week:
"He's a standing statue."
Like there is any other kind of statue?
Edited on 11/9/2006 4:43 PM
Post by: janderson on November 09, 2006, 03:57:11 PM
quote:
Physics is physics. If the ending heavy spot of the ball is different, whether a balance hole is used or not, the ball will react differently..!! It may be minimal to your eyes or others eyes, or it may be enough that you can see the difference, but in either case, there WILL BE A DIFFERENCE.
That's why at so many tournaments, when I see other bowlers racing to make surface adjustments on their equipment, I just scratch the color-filling out of ball logos to change its weight distribution. Other times, I may need to fill in some color to change the weight distribution in the opposite direction.
Regardless what side you take here, the difference - if any - is minimal. How minimal of a difference does it need to be before it is discounted because of unreliable human delivery?
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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King : Kill the back row
Edited on 11/9/2006 4:49 PM