Hi DJ Sully 20 - Thank you for posting your concerns.  You have a good arsenal.  The loss of 60 pounds in body weight is a huge statement.  You need to link up with a high order coach.  If possible this should be a Gold Level Coach.  The coach will provide you with recommendations.  This will not  be a one session lesson.  It will take several. After, or during,  the first lesson you  will need to  have your PAP re-verified. Select a couple of balls for plugging.  At some time, All of your balls will need to be plugged and re-drilled.  Or you can just get new equipment and store the old pieces. You really cannot fix  yourself.  Strikes and spares - Denny, Silver Level Coach and almost Gold Level.

Hi all, I really feel lost and this is pretty embarrassing to me but I’m at a point where I’m frustrated and confused as to where to even start when it comes to working on myself as a bowler...I’ll try to keep this as short as possible. Back in the late 90’s - 06’ I was a pretty decent bowler averaged 205 and shot 299, 300 but never shot 800. I stopped bowling around early 07’ shortly after I threw 300. So I’ve been out of bowling from 2007 - 2018. Got back into bowling around Summer 2018 and got a couple of balls, got into a league and quickly noticed that the equipment has drastically changed...the balls hook a LOT MORE and with my rev-rate, speed and tilt my average shot is pretty damn deep on a house shot. Oh and I lost 60 lbs which I believe completely changed my shot, if you were to see me now vs back then you’d see what I’m saying it’s not even close to the same shot. I actually have video from my old shot and now if that would help I could upload it? But the issues I’m having are what I think are essentially my timing is always all over the place, so much so that I’ve been bowling for 2 years (since I’ve come back) and I still will throw an occasional gutter ball to the right always to the right (right handed). Also have issues with shot repeatability, I’ve been working on it but it’s hard to just stop using muscle to throw your shot when you’ve been doing it forever not to mention squeezing the ball too. I’ve gotten much better with not squeezing the ball but it’s difficult because I have to think about it. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks.

The 2 things that stick out are the loss in weight and the length of time being away.  You did mention that you were used to squeezing and muscling your swing.  You could do stuff at home that doesnt even require being in a bowling center.  You can stand in your living room with a bowling ball in your hand and practice letting the ball swing your arm instead of your arm swinging the ball.  Repetition creates muscle memory.  You can also focus on your TV while doing it so that you are not "thinking about it" as you are doing it.   

First thing you need to do is get re-fitted by your pro shop guy.  After being re-fit, compare what he wrote down to what is currently in your equipment.  Your hand could go through some significant changes over a 10-15 year period.  Flexibility may change and may need to tweak your span as well.  You would be surprised at how much an 1/8 of an inch could affect your swing and release.  Coaching wont matter much if your fit is not proper. So get that done first.

Second thing is..... are you letting your arm hinge in the pushaway and downswing or do you do the old school method of doing a full pushaway to the point that your elbow is almost locked?  The arm swing is taught completely different now than 20+ years ago.  Watch videos of Chris Barnes and Bill ONeill.  They are the epitome of the modern arm swing.  If you let your arm hinge then you basically take your muscles out of the equation.  The only way you could muscle your swing is if your ball is not fitted properly and you are squeezing. 

I know it has been 2 years and could be a lot to take in.  But it is going to take a little time and patience.  With the proper fit and just practicing the hinged arm swing and allowing the ball to swing your arm, things will fall in to place.  Even your pro shop guy can get on the lanes with you and give lessons to help get everything in sync.   

Second thing is..... are you letting your arm hinge in the pushaway and downswing or do you do the old school method of doing a full pushaway to the point that your elbow is almost locked?  The arm swing is taught completely different now than 20+ years ago.  Watch videos of Chris Barnes and Bill ONeill.  They are the epitome of the modern arm swing.  If you let your arm hinge then you basically take your muscles out of the equation.  The only way you could muscle your swing is if your ball is not fitted properly and you are squeezing. 

You had me going until here. I don't see how someone could say that because something is old it still isn't usable. If that were the case, people not be clamoring for urethane right now, everyone would be throwing 2 hands, and would Duke be not be killing it on the King of the Lanes with an old school classic pendulum swing. Now, keep in mind that that swing is different than what someone like Aulby did, when he was pushing up as well as out. But Duke, and Ozio could still make bank with that.

With that swing, at all boils down to rhythm and timing with your feet. As long as you can keep those inline with your swing, then you're not doing anything with muscles, because you're letting the natural motion of the swing do the job for you.

My point here is if that isn't broken for someone, why try to fix it?

BL.

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on July 30, 2020, 08:41:17 AM

Second thing is..... are you letting your arm hinge in the pushaway and downswing or do you do the old school method of doing a full pushaway to the point that your elbow is almost locked?  The arm swing is taught completely different now than 20+ years ago.  Watch videos of Chris Barnes and Bill ONeill.  They are the epitome of the modern arm swing.  If you let your arm hinge then you basically take your muscles out of the equation.  The only way you could muscle your swing is if your ball is not fitted properly and you are squeezing. 

You had me going until here. I don't see how someone could say that because something is old it still isn't usable. If that were the case, people not be clamoring for urethane right now, everyone would be throwing 2 hands, and would Duke be not be killing it on the King of the Lanes with an old school classic pendulum swing. Now, keep in mind that that swing is different than what someone like Aulby did, when he was pushing up as well as out. But Duke, and Ozio could still make bank with that.

With that swing, at all boils down to rhythm and timing with your feet. As long as you can keep those inline with your swing, then you're not doing anything with muscles, because you're letting the natural motion of the swing do the job for you.

My point here is if that isn't broken for someone, why try to fix it?

BL.

Because something is broken and he is on here looking for suggestions to fix it. I didnt say it wasnt usable.  I just said that the swing is taught differently now. When using Duke as an example, he is an anomaly.  Duke also has never taken 8 years off let alone 8 days off I would imagine.  Its like comparing Belmonte or Simonson to a two handed league bowler.  I am just going through multiple ideas to give him some ideas to see what might work for him.  What worked 20 years ago may not work now.  Plus, he had been out of the game for 8 years. 

Hell...I am 47 years old now and if I just go 2-3 months without picking up a ball; the first time I do throw a ball it feels like my body aged 10 years because certain muscles arent being used.  So it takes me a good 10-12 shots just to get my body to loosen up so I dont feel like I am going to pull something trying to generate any ball speed. Twenty years ago, I was 20-21 mph and 570 rpms and quite active playing multiple sports.  Now I am more like 18 mph and 500 rpms and not nearly as active as I used to be.

When he said he had trouble with repeating shots and muscling the swing, having been around some of the best teachers performing clinics; first thoughts that come to mind are too long a push away and locking the elbow and squeezing the ball.  Another thing to bear in mind is, going from a full push away to a hinged one is not nearly the same as going from one handed to two handed.  I am sure there are hundreds if not thousands of people who have tried bowling two handed and just simply could not for one reason or another.  I have been bowling for 37 years and 25 of those are two handed.  I just got fortunate that two handed style came naturally and picked it up the second I tried it.  One thing you have to have is ball speed.  You can get away with slower ball speed one handed because it is easier to cut down on the rev rate.  Cant imagine there are many two handers out there with rev rate lower than 350.

Sorry this got a little lengthy.  But I am giving the man some ideas in hopes that something will click and he can get to where he wants to be.   

Hi DJ Sully 20 - Thank you for posting your concerns.  You have a good arsenal.  The loss of 60 pounds in body weight is a huge statement.  You need to link up with a high order coach.  If possible this should be a Gold Level Coach.  The coach will provide you with recommendations.  This will not  be a one session lesson.  It will take several. After, or during,  the first lesson you  will need to  have your PAP re-verified. Select a couple of balls for plugging.  At some time, All of your balls will need to be plugged and re-drilled.  Or you can just get new equipment and store the old pieces. You really cannot fix  yourself.  Strikes and spares - Denny, Silver Level Coach and almost Gold Level.

Sorry I should have stated that ALL my equipment now is NEW or not from back in the mid 2000’s so all my equipment has been re-done. I appreciate everyone’s input in trying to help! Just so I’m clear on this I have analyzed tons of footage of myself and what I’m “doing wrong” and to me what seems to be my main problem is unlearning minor muscling my swing...when I say that I mean years ago my “muscling” was way worse. I have since been working on freeing up my swing as at this point my equipment is drilled correctly.(the problem unfortunately originated with my local bowling alley having poor pro shop operators w/drilling balls and thus muscling in my swing) So now that my equipment is pretty solid and feels pretty good I’ve been trying to unlearn it and honestly I’ve stopped doing it a lot but I still do it at the bottom and that’s where I’m having the most trouble. 2nd major issue has to be my timing, I need a way to keep everything in time correctly, I can spot it when it’s off but it’s trying to get it back in line that’s an issue.

I suggest posting some videos.

Steve,
Great advice. I had to sit out 1 year due to a severely torn left calf That happened while bowling. Took a couple of sessions just to get feel and timing together. Be patient and put the time in, it does get better with the tips listed above.


Steve,
Are you in the Tampa area still?

Thank you.  I sent you a PM.  But I do live in the Tampa area and actually just ran in to Cecil Scarboro (rep for Vise Inserts for the Tour) a few weeks ago now realizing he lives about 15 minutes from me.