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Author Topic: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...  (Read 4491 times)

JessN16

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If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« on: October 30, 2007, 03:45:21 PM »
...what does that say about your game? Anything?

I've found over the years that the balls I performed best with were assymetrical-cored balls. Most all of my best scores came with either an old AMF bone XS (a Mo Pinel-designed assym), or members of the Storm X-Factor and Paradigm lines.

Meanwhile, I have not had as good luck with symmetrical-cored balls.

I've noticed, on the assyms, that the drillings my driller selected for me allowed the ball to get deeper down the lane and make a firm, deliberate move to the pocket off the dry. I guess you could call that "angular" but I don't want to call up visions of the proverbial "skid-snap" ball everyone seems to want.

My question to you is, if I told you that I preferred assyms, or performed better with assyms, would that tell you anything about my game without seeing me bowl?

Jess

 

northface28

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2007, 11:51:00 PM »
I prefer symmetrical balls, they lose tilt and rotation more evenly, allowing for a better "read" of the ball. I'm end-over-end with tilt and very straight thru the  front, with a track diameter using the full circumference of the ball. If that helps.
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JessN16

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2007, 12:34:10 AM »
absolutebowling,

Pretty darn close. I'd say about 75 percent of it or more was dead on.

Ball tracks: I used to be a VERY high track player. Now, not usually. My PAP is now 4 over and 3/8 up, and I sometimes have a small track circumference area, but also sometimes have a large track circumference area. I did bowl with a wrist brace for some time, I do have an old wrist injury, and I do have a flexibility issue in my wrist.

However, I've practiced a lot of different hand positions and release techniques, and I can throw a true spinner if I want to or come straight up the back of the ball if I need to. I'm versatile.

I don't repeat shots well, however. Damn, I wish you had been right about that one. One the majority of nights, I can, but sometimes, I'm terribly erratic.

I do prefer similar breakpoint looks across multiple equipment, but it's not necessary. I will, usually, change balls if I have that option rather than change the breakpoint shape I'm looking for. But if that option isn't there, I do have at least enough talent to have a "B" or "C" look that I can go to. But they are "B" and "C" for a reason.

I am righthanded.

Your best Nostradamus moment came with your comments about playing deep inside -- I hate having to do it, ever. When I bowled PBA Experience, I played the Shark pattern the way Norm Duke plays it a lot of the time -- off the corner, ball pointed at the pocket from the get-go. I can change speeds fairly easily, but the higher my speed is, the more limited my options are in terms of tilt/rotation manipulation, and I begin to track high at high speeds. If I have to throw hard from a deep inside angle, I'm easily beaten.

I do trust drillers implicitly. It typically takes a while for me to develop trust in a driller, but once I do, I'd throw the ball with my foot if they told me that's what was best for me.

I'm definitely not a whiner/complainer. I'd say 99 percent of my past failures in bowling were absolutely, directly my fault. People who constantly complain about lane conditions get on my nerves. I'll gripe, too -- but I'll gripe about my inability to figure them out. Everyone on a pair has to deal with the same conditions. Only if, say, I'm at a tournament and the condition isn't equal for all will I ever speak up.

I'm going to take my rev rate information out of my profile, because I honestly don't know anymore. I've had people watch me and tell me everything from 160 to 400, so it's obvious I need to get in front of a CATS machine and find out for sure. I know over the last two years I've added a bunch of revs. As for speed, I can adjust between about 13.5 to around 18.5 (average for the entire length of the lane) as needed, and I generate as much as 25+ on spares when I'm throwing straight.

Jess

Edited on 10/31/2007 0:35 AM

dizzyfugu

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2007, 09:11:14 AM »
quote:
I prefer symmetrical balls as they are not so touchy to drill as assymetrical balls with heavy MB's.


Ditto for me - I found "conventional" symmetric core balls to be more versatile overall, while strong MB balls are good for special purposes. I found their spectrum of use more limited - but within these boundraies, they are VERY effective. It is a trade-off.

Taking this imression further, I do not think that sym. vs. asym. tells much about style. It is rather about the reaction you want to achieve on the lane - and if you know exactly what you want, a high MB ball can be just the right ticket to (more) success.
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T-GOD

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2007, 10:00:17 AM »
Basically bowlers with weaker releases and lower rev rates tend to like Asymmetrical cores because these balls give them more angle to the pocket.

Bowlers with stronger releases and higher rev rates don't need more angle to the pocket and tend like the control of symmetrical cores.

So, what that says about your game is that bowlers using asymmetrical cores are usually straighter players with lower revs rates. They also like tougher lane conditions. =:^D

T-GOD

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2007, 01:39:35 PM »
X-Guy,

JessN16

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2007, 07:27:45 PM »
Also disagree. As my rev rate has increased, I've found the story is the same for me now as it ever was.

Jess

LuckyLefty

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2007, 07:34:30 PM »
Heres a lefty who likes it when I have to swing it a moderate amount.

I'm moving to stronger balls to help do it!

I'm creating shots with drillings and assymetrics which I believe are going to have me near the 3rd arrow creating a lot of area on our league shot!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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JessN16

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2007, 10:06:59 PM »
quote:
You low track, is that with both types of cores, or just the asymmetrical balls?

Bowlers tend to be more accurate than they believe they are. I would suggest perhaps during a practise session and getting a viewer to tell you over a game or so your ball position at the arrows and the breakpoint. When you suggested that you have a profile, I got in there and saw you are a 190-200 average bowler. You still have to be pretty consistent in shot direction to average a deuce, even on quite easy conditions. Perhaps your problem isn't shot direction, but you try to repeat the shot rather than the feeling of each delivery. Focuss on trusting the feeling of the shot to repeat even better than I truely suspect you do.

Repeating is probably only a small part of posting scores on house shots these days. It's more about playing the right line. Even if you personally think you are making bad shots when you leave pins, try to believe in your ability enough to not have to double check a reaction, and make a confident adjustment just like you would if you had thrown the shot 100%. Today's game is more about lane management than making absolute pure shots.

A good way to play better inside, is to stand a little closer to the foul line during the start of the delivery. If you do this, and make sure you complete the follow through on every single delivery, you will be able to post shots a little better. It's best to work on this with symmetrical gear, and make the moves as you see them. As a right hander, you have to accept that there are many times where getting outside is physically impossible if you are looking to score.

I too favour a more simple line, and score well when I get to play it. Problem is, being able to get outside is rarer than hens teeth for righties these days. The quicker you mentally accept it, and develop your inside game as much as your down and in game, you will start to see better scores.

I currently get the feeling you are thinking "Damn I have to get inside now" instead of thinking "sweet, I can get in deep and get some strikes" change what you tell yourself next time you have to play in, and I guarantee it will improve your results.

Sometimes the best change we can make, is a change of our viewpoint.

Regards.



When I low track, it's usually because I adjusted my tilt or changed my release to make it that way.

However, I can typically make an assym low-track a little more than a symmetrical-core ball, depending on the drill pattern, of course.

Where I have a problem playing inside is the area to which I miss. If I'm playing my preferred line, which is somewhere over 8 to 15 at the arrows out to anywhere from 3 to 8 at the breakpoint, when I miss, I tend to miss left. If I had to choose, on league night, between hold and recovery, I'd take hold, because I can really control the tendency to swing it too far (I learned to bowl in a house with above-ground ball returns, and on the righthand lane of a pair, I couldn't get far enough left to swing it, so I had to discipline myself to go straight down anything from about 3 to 10).

However, for some stupid reason, this all changes when I move inside. I'm just as likely to miss right as left. Or -- and this is a new problem, since I dropped the wrist brace last year -- I'll be too conscious about pulling the ball, and I won't get enough revs on it. What I've done in that situation is throw a lame duck that, if it gets back to the head pin, leaves me with a loaded bucket on the left or a 2-4-10.

Perhaps this is where some of my versatility works against me. I'm capable of going straight up the boards outside of 5 on the right. So when the oil disappears left of 5, and everyone else starts moving in, I can grab something less aggressive, move out to where no one else is, and start piping it.

But I need to get better at playing in, because Tuesday night, I got myself in a pickle. My house rotates its house shot between five house-style patterns, and this week, they threw out one of the lowest-volume patters of the year. It didn't help that I was bowling against a very good team, and one of those guys was throwing an aggressive ball starting left of me, crossing my line, hitting my breakpoint and hooking, with more speed and revs than I can generate. So my line broke down quickly.

By the eighth frame of that first game, the ball that I'd used for three games the previous week was fighting to just stay alive. I made three major moves in eight frames, with feet, speed and eyes. I then switched to something less aggressive, and that worked until about frame six of the second game. Then, I started running into one of this guy's teammates' line.

So I pulled out the least aggressive thing I had, and started going up 4-6. This worked until one of my opponents started going straight up 5-8. That took away any hold area I had, and made every shot nerve-wracking. I still shot 560-something on the night (my average is 579), but I had no big numbers.

I would have liked to move inside and played 15 left at the breakpoint, but I don't have that shot in my bag/hands at the moment.

Jess

JessN16

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2007, 11:39:03 PM »
absolutebowling,

Have I also mentioned that I'm righthanded but strongly left-eye dominant? It's a swell mix. (g)

If I look at 10, I typically hit 13-14, unless I really, REALLY focus.

The only thing in that list of suggestions I'm going to be slow to try is loading up weight on my left leg. I weigh more than I should to start with, but it doesn't help that I've got some cartilage issues in my right knee and a very mildly strained ligament in my left.

I actually have good balance despite my weight and usually can bowl pain-free, but I have to carefully watch any adjustments I make with the lower body. I finally, over the last two years, found an optimum spine tilt that allows me to compensate for the leg problems but maintain a good leverage position at the line.

Equipment question: If I'm trying to play deep inside, what would be the general qualities I would want in a ball itself? I don't want a specific ball suggestion, just a set of criteria (particularly as it pertains to surface). I've got 34 balls in the house and I'll be able to find something close.

Jess

Mark T. Trgovac

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2007, 04:57:35 AM »
All this talk about using a symmetrical ball. I laugh, because those of you who say you use them must not put any holes into the ball. I mean seeing how there is no such thing as a Symmetrical ball after you drill one. You only have a low MB ball. There is no post-drilled symmetrical ball, no matter how you look at it.
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mainzer

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2007, 01:42:49 PM »
prefer assyms, I have always bowled better with them in my hand. Can't put a finger on why however.
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Rileybowler

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2007, 02:11:38 PM »
If there is no difference then why do they market them that way?
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Dan Belcher

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2007, 02:30:33 PM »
After you put holes in a symmetrical ball, it is "asymmetrial" by definition, yes.  But it's a fairly negligable amount of asymmetry compared to high MB cores from my understanding.

Mark T. Trgovac

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Re: If you like assymetrical core balls better than symmetrical...
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2007, 09:29:47 PM »
quote:
quote:
All this talk about using a symmetrical ball. I laugh, because those of you who say you use them must not put any holes into the ball. I mean seeing how there is no such thing as a Symmetrical ball after you drill one. You only have a low MB ball. There is no post-drilled symmetrical ball, no matter how you look at it.
 


I don't believe anyone (at least I'm not) is saying there is a post-drilled Symmetrical ball Mark. We are talking about a ball being a Symmetric ball prior to drilling, so the laugh is on you. If you will note, I even mentioned that extremely weak assymetric balls will work for me and I am sure they may for others also that prefer symmetric cored balls, but heavy MB balls DO NOT WORK for me and I'm sure there are others that may say likewise and I am talking about a heavy MB prior to drilling. I have had way too many expensive lessons or in other words bought way too many expensive heavy MB balls only to find out none will work for me and they have been drilled by knowledgable drillers with way more years of experience and knowledge than you have even thought of accumalating, especially when you are only an 18 year old or so kid.

Sorry for the rant, but the attitude of your post just didn't sit right with me.

Edited on 11/1/2007 7:12 PM


If you took it with any attitude that was a mean type Im sorry. I just found it funny that guys still call a ball symetrical after they have it drilled. It isnt a big deal. I just belive that most people who have problems with High MB balls have problems because they are nto drilled for their PAP, VAL, Rev Rate, and Speed. Most drillers dont get much info on the bowler after they ask, "What is your style? Are you a rev dominate stroker or speed?" That is what most drillers get. I think that is the reason so many people dont like stronger Asymetrical stuff. Once again if you took my attitude in a mean way, I am sorry. I just find it funny that guys call a drilled ball "Symetrical"
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Mark "scoot" Trgovac
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