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Author Topic: If you refuse to bowl scratch...  (Read 5232 times)

9andaWiggle

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If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« on: September 03, 2008, 03:51:12 AM »
The Sandbaggers win!

Think about it.  No handicap, no sandbaggers.  Best man always wins.  Isn't that what true competition is about?

Why do we think a 120 avg. bowler should be able to compete with a 220 avg. bowler?  Do I get to golf with Tiger Woods?  If I did, would I expect to be given some way in which I could be determined the winner, even though my actual score was twice what his round would be?

No sir, if I want to beat Tiger, I either have to bash his knee caps in behind the pro shop with a tire iron, or I can spend 30 years and countless dollars on coaching and practice to get good enough to beat him fair and square (and even that's not a guarantee).

Why is bowling different?  In little league, you don't give the "bad" team 10 free runs.  Football doesn't spot anybody a turnover or two.  Basketball doesn't start off with the weaker team shooting 20 free-throws.  I could go on, but you get the picture.

What makes it OK to artificially inflate bowler's scores in the name of "leveling the playing field" when other sports do not do this?  Or, how come other sports DO NOT handicap their teams to make a more "fair" competition?

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9~

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rvmark

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2008, 07:09:29 PM »
With the mens and mixed league I bowl in we do not pay huge dollars, last year our mens team ended with the 2nd most wins overall and ended up with 450 for a 5 man team, not a huge deal.  We bowl for the fun not for the money, sandbagging gets a little tougher as they use 80% of 230 for handicap.

Mark

NtheDitch

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2008, 07:24:07 PM »
All I ever hear about is in my day... back when I was younger... When I started I was bein coached by my father and an older friend of the family that used to tour the first ball I used was an old white dot. I averaged 171 for my first summer league so I'd say I learned the right way. Now it seems that I'm getting in my own way more than anything. But how many guys of the older generation do you see that are averaging 10 or 20 pins better since buying a new ball or two, alot in this area, and I have bowled in 1 tournament so far and I cashed but it was a small in house scratch tournament so no I guess I dont fall into the catagory of the sandbaggers your talking about, but I guess its just close becuase I bowl better against better bowlers.

EDIT: Ok I guess I should have slowed down a bit but after bowling last night this is sticky issue with me. My biggest problem isn't bein fit in with the baggers its that too many scratch bowlers have a problem with tweener averages that bowl well.
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Edited on 9/3/2008 7:29 PM

idriveahonda

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2008, 09:12:28 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
The big difference is that golfers cannot play for prize money unless they decare themselves professional.


INCORRECT.

ANY golfer, amateur or junior, can receive a cash prize of under $500 in cash, and any sort of prize for hole in one, longest drive, closest to the pin, under a verified amount.  Cars and such are still under USGA stipulation as to whether they should be able to be accepted by amateurs.

Trust me, I've won money in tournaments, but have had to decline portions of it to meet college eligibility standards.


I'm sorry Honda but you are incorrect, you CANNOT under any circumstances receive a CASH prize if you are an amateur.  Boats, cars, et. are a one time occurrence and are permissible by todays USGA rules.  I've competed in 100's of amateur golf tournaments around the country and know the rules inside and out.  You can receive a gift certificates to the amount of $750 but that is it.  Paramutuals and calcutta's are another story.  Much goes on under the table but officially you are NOT ALLOWED to accept cash.  Big difference between bowling and golf.


My college coach has researched it many times, and you can accept cash prize as long as under $500 and no sort of sponsorship is correlated to the cash prize.

I understand the gift certificates, but I'm pretty sure (note this, pretty sure) the USGA increased it to $1000 this year didn't they?

Whether or not you or I are right, I was given permission and I take advantage of it.  Considering I shot 65 (-7) at Kingsmill River Course in a amateur tournament...got me a ton of stuff lol.

JessN16

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2008, 09:37:13 PM »
If you can't accept money at amateur golf tournaments, there isn't an amateur golfer left in southwest Alabama. (g)

Jess

Rileybowler

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2008, 09:42:22 PM »
Number one Tiger is a pro number two you are exactly right high average bowlers should bowl in a scratch league, but for the regular league there is always going to be a handicap
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name
Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

LuckyLefty

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2008, 09:42:56 PM »
There are handicap golf tournaments all the time!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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notsohotshot

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2008, 09:57:10 PM »
In TCBA they kinda took care of the tournament thing and your local could also.If the tourney is sanctioned they could keep up with the score you post for the season and include them in your book average.
In TCBA all tourney games bowled in TCBA tourneys are kept and if your t avg is 15 pins higher than your tcba league avg then you add enough pins to bring it to within 15 pins. Same goes with all of your other sanctioned leagued leagued leagues.If those are 15 pins or higher than your TCBA avg then they rerate your avg up to within 15 pins of your highest league avg. Doesn't stop it but it slows it down as TCBA is the highest paying league anywhere in USA

Pinbuster

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2008, 07:13:23 AM »
From Appendix III of the rules of golf on Amateur/Professional status

3-1. Playing for Prize Money

An amateur golfer must not play golf for prize money or its equivalent in a match, competition or exhibition.

Note: An amateur golfer may participate in an event where prize money or its equivalent is offered, provided that prior to participation he waives his right to accept prize money in that event.

(Conduct contrary to the purpose and spirit of the Rules - see Rule 7-2.)
(Policy on gambling - see Appendix.)

3-2. Prize Limits

a. General

An amateur golfer must not accept a prize (other than a symbolic prize) or prize voucher of retail value in excess of $750 or the equivalent, or such a lesser figure as may be decided by the USGA. This limit applies to the total prizes or prize vouchers received by an amateur golfer in any one competition or series of competitions.

Exception: A prize, including a cash prize, for a hole-in-one made while playing golf may exceed the above prize limit.

 b. Exchanging Prizes

An amateur golfer must not exchange a prize or prize voucher for cash.

Exception: An amateur golfer may submit a prize voucher to a state or regional golf association and thereafter be reimbursed from the value of that voucher for expenses incurred in participating in a golf competition, provided the reimbursement of such expenses is permitted under Rule 4-2.

Note 1: The responsibility to prove the retail value of a particular prize rests with the Committee in charge of the competition.

Note 2: It is recommended that the total value of prizes in a gross competition, or each division of a handicap competition, should not exceed twice the prescribed limit in an 18-hole competition, three times in a 36-hole competition, five times in a 54-hole competition and six times in a 72-hole competition.



While I agree that Am's play for money all the time. The USGA does not condon it.

Jock

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2008, 10:36:44 AM »
The french system is not too bad.  

They use the last 12 months (not 1 year) which means each month one month leaves the 12 month period and another is taken into consideration.  Also, once you have over 21 tournament games registered, only the tournament scores are taken into account. There are still big loopholes though.  

Imagine when I get my 21 games in I'm at a 185 average, I therefore get handicap for 185.  If I improve (to say a 200 ave) but I don't bowl any more tourneys, I still get my handicap for 185 and I can clean up in ANY handicap league (scratch leagues don't exist in France).  

That's not too much of a problem over here though because you ain't going to bag just to win 30/40 € at the end of the league.  It is just not worth it.

I agree that everyone should just bowl scratch but leagues would just die out.  Who in their right mind is going to join a scratch league where there are bowlers with averages 30 pins higher?
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I've upped my average, so up yours!
Ive upped my average, so up yours!

mainzer

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2008, 11:27:14 AM »
I like 9s point here.

IMO If you average over 200 you should be bowling ONLY SCRATCH LEAGUES.
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MainzerPower
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MainzerPower

Pinbuster

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2008, 11:33:28 AM »
I disagree.

You can average whatever you want and still bowl in handicap leagues. There are too many reasons a person might want to bowl in one.

I bowl in one so that I can bowl with my daughter.

But you forfeit most of your right to complain about the handicapping system.

Krakken

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Re: If you refuse to bowl scratch...
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2008, 01:25:18 PM »
quote:
I like 9s point here.

IMO If you average over 200 you should be bowling ONLY SCRATCH LEAGUES.
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MainzerPower


I will say it again. My wife wants to bowl in a league with me.  I average 225.  Should she have to bowl in a scratch league with her 120 average?  No.

Handicaps are there to try to level the playing field between all bowlers. Mixed leagues are for fun and recreation.  I enjoy being able to bowl with my wife one night a week.

Stop that kind of thinking and you will really kill bowling.
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