thanks for the info. i had never really seen it much til monday night, someone on my league has nearly the same span as me, and has a Defiant (i have one too, drilled pin up, thumb kicked out to the side) and his is drilled pin in the finger. His ball is much more skid snappy, and mine is much more arcy. I haven't found much use for mine yet, and he likes mine much more than his, so i was considering trying his on the fresh, and maybe swapping with him. It will just depend on how his reacts for me on the fresh