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Author Topic: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane  (Read 1496 times)

bestbudzs24

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natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« on: January 18, 2010, 06:31:44 PM »
with urethane making a comeback which one of these would be the best option. i have been struggling mightly with the dryish conditions the houses are putting down in my area(southside chicago). i just cant seem to keep my reactive stuff of the headpin. so i figure i will revisit the urethane era. i am definetly rev dominant since my arm injury(around 400rpm). and i have dropped from 16 to 14lb.gear. ball speed is in the high 15's to low 16's. and i track pretty high.  any input would be GREATLY appreciated as my average is falling fast lol. thanks in advance
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six pack

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 05:37:16 AM »
I had the Desperado and for me was way to strong for what I wanted.I had problems with clearing the fried heads. I have an used ogre on the way to try but won't know how this works out as of yet but I have an ogre pearl and ss and like them so I feel the ogre u will be a good fit for my game.
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AngloBowler

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 05:46:28 AM »
I know with my urethane I often have problems clearing the heads too, although if there's head oil and the pattern is short, it's a great ball. I've recently got myself an old reactive ball (Columbia Shadow R) which has a pretty strong drill but has amazing length (allows me to play 3rd board on a THS where the wall stops at around 9-10th), well worth it if you can find something similar.

Before I got the Shadow, I was using a tropical storm with a 6" pin above the fingers and a 500 abralon finish, which was ok, but on burnt heads it really struggles.
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charlest

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 08:03:01 AM »
As far as I have learned, I'd order the urethanes this way based on both "earliness of lane grab" (indicating the amount of oil they'll handle, with their out of the box surface) and the amount of hook:

AMF Hype Urethane
Storm Natural
Seismic Desperado
Visionary Ogre Urethane

The Ogre is the only one that truly comes polished.
The Hype comes P4000 matte, but that's a fairly rough P4000 and it tookme quite a while with a number of polishes on a spinner to get it truly smooth, and you'd never call the surace I have now as polished.
The Natural seems easier to get to a polished state as several people have done it and reported here. I'd consider it to be milder urethane than the Hype in many ways.
The Desperado is unusual in that's it's the only pearl urethane in this group, plus it has silicone additives to make it even easier to get length. I have been able to stand and lay it down in some very dry stuff, that I couldn't with an older pearl urethane, the Visionary Slate Blue Gargoyle. The Slate Blue was another whole degree more aggressive than the Desperado.

One other noteworthy feature of the Desperado, the most expensive of this whole group, is that it has an asymmetric core. When the lanes are right I got some strong backend power out of this ball. I'm not talking about hook power, but pin driving power. One day in practice I blew the rack, I mean throwing the 5 pin into the 7 pin quite explosively, 5 times in a row ont he right lane of a pair. Both I andmy friend also throwing one were quite surprised. The asymmetry seems to make a difference.

I got rid of my Slate Blue because of the superior utility of the Desperado. I am trying to also sell my Hype for the same reason.
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charlest

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 08:12:09 AM »
quote:
I had the Desperado and for me was way to strong for what I wanted.I had problems with clearing the fried heads. I have an used ogre on the way to try but won't know how this works out as of yet but I have an ogre pearl and ss and like them so I feel the ogre u will be a good fit for my game.
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sixpack,

I'm not sure of your style or the degree to which your heads were fried, so I can't comment on that. Everything we talk about is relative. I mean, they could be fried enough so that you'd need polyester balls.In which case, even an Ogre might not help. It depends, of course,on your ball speed and how fried they were. (I have bowled on lanes so fried, even my plastic ball rolled out!)

Let me tell you a little bit about me and my Depserado, in case it might help you. One, I added, err, tried to add some length to it, by polishing it with Storm's Xtra Shine. That was one of the polishes that also worked on the Hype, a much tougher urethane shell. It does not have the gloss polished appearance we get from most resin balls, but it got easier leangth. Two, On the advice my friend got directly fromSeismic, I drilled mine like I would a resin from which I wanted to add length and flippiness: I put the pin over the ring finger and the mass bias marker/PSA just right of my thumbhole. Those two seem to allow me to play more direct, using an outside line, no further inside than the 10 board at the arrows, and sometimes even further outside.

I recently, lightly sanded the outside with a 4000 Abralon pad gently by hand and the result made it grab the lane slightly earlier, enough so that I had to move a little deeper. Since this burned up too much energy inhook, rather than saving it for hitting power, I have since reshined, err, re-aplied polish to the ball.
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six pack

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 12:44:45 PM »
charlest,
 I agree 100% about the proper lay out for the Desperado and felt the lay out I had was a bit to strong for what I was looking for.in all fairness the Desp was built for med/light short oil patterns and wet/dry and felt it would of been a great choice for such conditions.for dry'ish lanes it did not work for me.the Ogre cores are working well for my game so I'll see how the Ogre U works out,I still have my trusty black hammer if all else fails.
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lenstanles703

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 02:44:54 PM »
I have the Ogre Urethane. It should be fine out of box for the dry. I sanded it to 400 and it will hook on a THS. I hit it with Bean's Secret Sauce and I got more length. I'll have to take it up to OOB to use it on dry. It's a lot harder cover stock than resin. In the specs its called hard urethane, makes it a little tougher to tweak the cover. Good Luck!
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mainzer

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 02:57:28 PM »
I have a Desperado I dont think it is as strong as six pack claims to be, But it is a little stronger than a standard Urethane ball more on the backend.

This info is coming from a guy that also has a average ball speed in the Low 19s with revs to match the speed.
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JessN16

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 09:39:29 PM »
The only thing like this I have is a Slate Blue Gargoyle. It's stronger than some weak or older resin balls. It's easy to get accustomed to once you practice with it some, but if you find one (and they're still available in places), don't buy it with designs on it being for absolute toast.

For true, complete toast, either the Urethane Ogre or Lane #1's XXXL Starburst, which is polyester, are going to be your only choices unless you just want some garden-variety pancake-block Viz-a-Ball.

By the way, I got to see a Liberator in action recently -- guy was covering more boards with it than a 220-level stroker was with a Hammer Black Widow Bite. Shot 780-something with it in our scratch league last week. It is for mediums, period, unless you find a way to shine the heck out of it. It's got that big Diamond core in it with the coverstock off the old BUD II, which was a pretty aggressive urethane for its day.

Jess
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six pack

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 06:54:15 PM »
just a thought.it would be very helpful if someone could list all the hardness ratings of the cover's on these urethanes.
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golfnutFL

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 07:31:17 PM »
I can tell you this...I had all of these balls drilled....the Ogre Urethane was by far the hardest shell to drill through...none of the others were any harder to drill than any reactive ball, the OU was like drilling through a diamond.

quote:
just a thought.it would be very helpful if someone could list all the hardness ratings of the cover's on these urethanes.
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charlest

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Re: natural/desperado/liberator/orge urethane/hype urethane
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 07:48:15 PM »
quote:
Charlest, the Hype Urethane comes with a finish closer to p1000 in my experience. While the site says 4000, to replicate the reaction during a resurface, I take it to 1000.
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Hey, that's entirely possible.
As I said it took me a long time, lots of polishes/compounds to get it anywhere near smooth.

I don't really want to emulate its out-of-the-box surface.
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