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Author Topic: integrity of the game  (Read 2332 times)

shelbyswamper09

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integrity of the game
« on: July 09, 2007, 06:15:14 AM »
Ok, I have been having this discussion with some of the guys I bowl with. With all the hoopla about the USBC trying to get the integrity of the game back by controlling the surface of the balls, lower scores, letting the good bowlers show through and the "house bowlers" slide in average. I was thinking why don't they make a sort of standard house shot with no wall? I don't think they should totally oil from gutter to gutter, but something that if you slide out then you will need some luck to strike. I see so many people playing the outside just bouncing the ball off the dry and letting it walk into the pocket, thinking they could "beat the pro's" Then when we get a tuffer shot they struggle and blame it on everything under the sun. except that they don't throw a "good ball."

By the way, I too would have a lower average as I tend to leak right and get help from the wall. I however am trying to work on that to get better and wouldn't mind losing a few pins to force myself to get better. What do you guys think of something like this or am I just bitter? lol
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Me: I threw an awsome shot and left a 4-9
Dad: Then it wasn't so awsome was it
Me: Shut up...it looked good to me

 

KDawg77

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2007, 02:19:00 PM »
If it involves the proprietors doing any more work and/or buying more lane dressing and equipment, then it will never happen.
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Fluff E Bunnie

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2007, 02:37:11 PM »
I think this would be a good idea.  I guess it can't happen though.  Although, people were saying the PBA Experience could never happen and then it happened.

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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.

shelbyswamper09

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2007, 02:41:11 PM »
The bad part about the house we bowl in is that it is a brunswick house and the pba league is some brunswick ball league or some crap like that. I guess a few guys were going to join and they were told that you got a total and a spare ball for money up front and those were the balls that you were to use in the league. Not 100% certain if this is true or not, but they have never lied before so I belive them. All the kids I asked at the counter didn't know what he hell I was talking about let alone the league rules.
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Me: I threw an awsome shot and left a 4-9
Dad: Then it wasn't so awsome was it
Me: Shut up...it looked good to me

Fluff E Bunnie

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2007, 03:08:15 PM »
quote:
they were told that you got a total and a spare ball for money up front and those were the balls that you were to use in the league. Not 100% certain if this is true or not


Haha, if that was true I would say screw you guys and go somewhere else.
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Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves.

LuckyLefty

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 03:34:22 PM »
I don't know why this is important to people.

What I have loved about golf(PGA tour)over the years...

There were tournies that were easier and players could tear up the course.

Then there were US open weeks and the scores were near and above par!

Very often different sets of players would contend on the different types of venues....  One might be an easy track player...another a tough track player!

Only the best of the best...say a Jack Nicklaus or a Tiger Woods seem to contend on both sets of conditions.  But then there were other players that were typically only good on TOUGH...say a Hale Irwin.  Then players that were really good on easy....say like a Mark Calchevvechia(I know there are better examples).

IO don't think every week should be tough on the tour and I don't think every league should be tough...!

Let the 800s flow!  Along with the increase in 900s!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
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storm making it rain

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 04:22:35 PM »
point one from me as a bowler:

       i would love to have some sort of national house pattern restriction, or at least harder guidelines to min/max oil volumes/patterns.  but that also takes out the experience to traveling to different places to bowl, besides the lane surface tangible.

point two from me as a bowling center manager:

        people want high scores, they wanna come in once a week average 200 or better and go home.  for along time i had a problem with this but i have come to realize that "it is what it is".  if usbc put out a harder more standardized lane condition some leagues would just not sanction point blank, i mean really what is a usbc card good for? so you might get a couple of rings a year that aren't worth anything.  and the awards are gonna be diminished eventually.

just my opinion here

Tex

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2007, 04:38:41 PM »
Well USBC has decided that lanes only have to be inspected once a year. WE (delegates) defeated this recommendation up in Billings a few years ago. The opinion of most was that this would further damage the integrity of the game. Bad enough local associations are calling the centers and setting up scheduled inspections. Guess what they pass. Now they get to call and only go out once a year. Of course if you are not going to stop the calling ahead, what difference does it make how many inspections you do.

storm making it rain

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2007, 04:44:55 PM »
good point they always let you know their coming...so we can put down the legal shot until they leave and just run the lanes again...great planning there..why not just show up an hour before the leagues start and tape them.

CHawk15

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2007, 05:32:00 PM »
There needs to be a distinction between recreational bowling and competitive bowling.  Recreational bowling should use the THS and be more about the fun and less about the competition.  I'm sick and tired of bowling in a league with a THS with these bowlers that treat it like it's the PBA to win a grand total of $300/ea for the 1st place team.  I would even go as far as to say that recreational leagues should use the prize fund to put together some type of event at the end of the season instead of paying out prize $$$.  This way you eliminate the competitive bowler from wanting to compete for $$ in a recreational league.  Competitive bowling should use more challenging oil patterns (PBA Experience, etc.) with higher league fees and prize $$ at the end of the year. If you want to compete, it should be more about a bowler's ability to bowl on tougher conditions and make adjusmtents instead of being more of a carry contest like it usually turns into on a THS.  I'm not saying that it doesn't take skill to bowl well on a THS, it does, but if you're bowling for $$$ and competition, you should be bowling on something that challenges you instead of laying down in front of you.  

laneman

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2007, 05:43:58 PM »
Great post chawk..so true.

Derek

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2007, 06:43:08 PM »
quote:
I don't know why this is important to people.

What I have loved about golf(PGA tour)over the years...

There were tournies that were easier and players could tear up the course.

Then there were US open weeks and the scores were near and above par!

Very often different sets of players would contend on the different types of venues....  One might be an easy track player...another a tough track player!

Only the best of the best...say a Jack Nicklaus or a Tiger Woods seem to contend on both sets of conditions.  But then there were other players that were typically only good on TOUGH...say a Hale Irwin.  Then players that were really good on easy....say like a Mark Calchevvechia(I know there are better examples).

IO don't think every week should be tough on the tour and I don't think every league should be tough...!

Let the 800s flow!  Along with the increase in 900s!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..



and then irwin got to the senior tour and won on every condition under the sun

Derek

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2007, 06:47:18 PM »
quote:
If they really wanted to improve the integrity of the game, then they'd stop with the clown-show bowling on Sunday afternoon.  As long as "the pros" are throwing balls between their legs and over chairs, etc... bowling is going to be viewed as just a bad joke.  How about serious bowling with good prize money to make it exciting instead of all the gimicky-bs and trick shot formats ?


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aren't those kind of like the home run derby's of baseball....and the dunk contest of basketball though?


i'm only 27...but didn't bowling even ever have any integrity to start with???  i hear alot of whining about how it's lost it...but...i still go to league every year...and we all have fun....

i guess i don't see what all the fuss is about....

JPL of VT

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2007, 07:57:46 PM »
Its going to be hard to put this genie back in the bottle, way too many marginal bowlers have had the taste of big scores and big averages and have developed bigger egos and for them to give this up will be a monumental task if not impossible.  How many of these house hacks with 210+ averages would continue bowling if all of a sudden they found themselves averaging 170 to 190 where most of them belong. I know many want to blame the proprietor, some are maybe too blame and some may have little choice, and I doubt it has anything to do with a proprietor not wanting to spend money on oil, give me a break. I hate the high scoring environment, I've never seen so many 220, 230 and even a 240 ave. as I have this past year(bowlers coming to this house for a tournament) and listening to them talk you know there is no way many of them will want to give up these averages.
Personally speaking I place some of the blame on the old ABC, for not standing up to the ball manufacturers and placing more stingent guidelines on ball construction, the balls just keep getting better and better and creating higher and higher scores, balls that are mid performance today are equal or better than the high performance balls of just a few years ago and the scores just keep going up.  As the averages keep going up there is less and less upside to bowling and lot more downside.  I don't have any answers to solve the problem, I wish I did, it will take years and a lot of re-educating the bowlers to the benefits of a more challenging scoring environment in order to save bowling for the future.  I'm sure many of us played Candy Land, Hooks and Ladders, Go Fish when we where children, we don't play those games any more because they were too simple and didn't offer a challenge, maybe that analogy is a bit extreme, but if  all involved in bowling don't join together to make bowling a true sport, it may just go the way of those children's games.  Just another opinion..

Atochabsh

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Re: integrity of the game
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2007, 08:04:15 PM »
quote:
good point they always let you know their coming...


When my partner and I did zero lineage, we didn't call ahead.  And we caught a lot of flack for it from the center managers becase they do not have staff on call at all times to run the lane machine.

quote:
i would love to have some sort of national house pattern restriction, or at least harder guidelines to min/max oil volumes/patterns. but that also takes out the experience to traveling to different places to bowl, besides the lane surface tangible.


We had something that was 'minimal' at best, according to most people on these boards.  And USBC did away with it this season.  

Erin