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Author Topic: Interesting PBA weekend  (Read 12889 times)

Remmah

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Interesting PBA weekend
« on: February 28, 2022, 07:02:57 PM »
3 balls fail testing before the show and the lane man fired after the show

 

svengali

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2022, 07:47:11 PM »
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themagician

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2022, 08:53:38 PM »
PBA just put out a notice, all pre 2020 Urethane balls are not allowed.

There is talk that more rules are to follow, but it's been communicated to national PBA members and all signed up to WSOB if your urethane is from before 2020, you can't use it.
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bradl

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2022, 09:39:08 PM »
PBA just put out a notice, all pre 2020 Urethane balls are not allowed.

There is talk that more rules are to follow, but it's been communicated to national PBA members and all signed up to WSOB if your urethane is from before 2020, you can't use it.

The questions to ask:

  • Is this is based off of manufacturer's date, URD, or USBC Approved list date? That will make a difference as to what could be used.
  • Is this a rolling two years, or a static two years? In 2024, will this ban effect balls (based on #1 above) made/released in 2022?
  • If this is based on hardness, will balls made prior to 2020 that pass the hardness test still be banned? Read: old school Fab Hammers, Rhinos, U2, U-Dots, etc.
  • will the USBC also adopt this change? If so, overseas balls will be affected.
  • This is currently main tour. will this be going blanket across all PBA tours (PBA50, PBA60, PBA Juniors, etc.)?

Lots of questions here that do not have any answers yet, and hopefully they get clarified. Otherwise, this could be a rather nasty slippery slope that could limit most people to catalog balls and nothing OEM/overseas/limited stock.

BL.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 09:49:00 PM by bradl »

themagician

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2022, 09:51:44 PM »
PBA just put out a notice, all pre 2020 Urethane balls are not allowed.

There is talk that more rules are to follow, but it's been communicated to national PBA members and all signed up to WSOB if your urethane is from before 2020, you can't use it.

The questions to ask:

  • Is this is based off of manufacturer's date, URD, or USBC Approved list date? That will make a difference as to what could be used.
  • Is this a rolling two years, or a static two years? In 2024, will this ban effect balls (based on #1 above) made/released in 2022?
  • If this is based on hardness, will balls made prior to 2020 that pass the hardness test still be banned? Read: old school Fab Hammers, Rhinos, U2, U-Dots, etc.
  • will the USBC also adopt this change? If so, overseas balls will be affected.
  • This is currently main tour. will this be going blanket across all PBA tours (PBA50, PBA60, PBA Juniors, etc.)?

Lots of questions here that do not have any answers yet, and hopefully they get clarified. Otherwise, this could be a rather nasty slippery slope that could limit most people to catalog balls and nothing OEM/overseas/limited stock.

BL.

So initial rule is balls manufactured before 2020. The verbiage sounds like moving forward would be any urethane ball that's 2 years old or more won't be allowed, and it is based on manufactured date. Other than that I got nothing, this is just PBA National tour for now.
-Mike
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bradl

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2022, 10:36:32 PM »
PBA just put out a notice, all pre 2020 Urethane balls are not allowed.

There is talk that more rules are to follow, but it's been communicated to national PBA members and all signed up to WSOB if your urethane is from before 2020, you can't use it.

The questions to ask:

  • Is this is based off of manufacturer's date, URD, or USBC Approved list date? That will make a difference as to what could be used.
  • Is this a rolling two years, or a static two years? In 2024, will this ban effect balls (based on #1 above) made/released in 2022?
  • If this is based on hardness, will balls made prior to 2020 that pass the hardness test still be banned? Read: old school Fab Hammers, Rhinos, U2, U-Dots, etc.
  • will the USBC also adopt this change? If so, overseas balls will be affected.
  • This is currently main tour. will this be going blanket across all PBA tours (PBA50, PBA60, PBA Juniors, etc.)?

Lots of questions here that do not have any answers yet, and hopefully they get clarified. Otherwise, this could be a rather nasty slippery slope that could limit most people to catalog balls and nothing OEM/overseas/limited stock.

BL.

So initial rule is balls manufactured before 2020. The verbiage sounds like moving forward would be any urethane ball that's 2 years old or more won't be allowed, and it is based on manufactured date. Other than that I got nothing, this is just PBA National tour for now.

If that’s the case, the 3 Urethane Hammers on the USBC approved list will be gone in  2024 along with the Black Widow Pink Pearl Urethane. Will this require the companies to keep making them every year in perpetuity?

I ask that because your post makes it sound like it is a rolling 2 years.

BL.

milorafferty

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2022, 11:21:15 PM »
I sure am glad I sold all my inventory last spring.  8) 8)
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JessN16

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2022, 01:23:40 AM »
It really sounds like they want to get rid of urethane on tour.

If that's what they're really going to do, they have to do some pattern modification as well. No one really likes seeing urethane roll down the lane but I'd rather see urethane look competent than guys be forced to use resin on patterns more or less designed to lock it out.

Strider

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2022, 05:55:58 AM »
Unless they are trying to get rid of urethane as suggested, why make this difficult?  There is a hardness spec.  If a ball fails, it can't be used, period.  In the past the guys used to drill a bunch of new balls each week.  If their current urethane balls fails, drill up another.  If it's not available, tough.  Why have a rule and allow some to skirt past it?  Lots of people have had balls be declared unusable at the ABC/USBC nationals tournament, usually for static weights.

itsallaboutme

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2022, 06:34:30 AM »
They made a new rule because they don't have the staff to test balls every week to enforce the rules they already have.  Up until the last couple of majors the PBA hasn't weighed or checked hardness of balls in about 20 years. 

Strider

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2022, 07:19:23 AM »
I didn't know that.  I wonder why they started recently?  If it were only for the majors, why didn't they test those in past years?  Anyway, if it's a rule and a ball failed, it shouldn't have allowed to be used, period.  Either enforce the rule or get rid of it (or change it), but until you do, it should be enforced.

itsallaboutme

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2022, 07:51:59 AM »
They started checking hardness because of all the grumbling about the purple hammers being too soft.

Once a ball fails it is not allowed to be used again.  The issue was they were testing after the fact and if a ball failed it was out going forward, there were no penalties for using it up until then.  So 3 guys qualified for a show that had balls that were thrown out for the show and future use.


Bowler19525

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2022, 08:15:14 AM »
This issue was discussed thoroughly on last night's Sweep the Rack podcast.  Some very interesting things came out of that discussion.

1. The three Purple Hammers that failed the hardness test were "Kentucky" balls from 2016/2017.  When they failed, they were confiscated.

2.  Mitch Beasley posted on Facebook that there was a batch of Kentucky Purple Hammers in a specific serial number range that were manufactured too soft, and tested in the 60's for hardness.  Due to the actions of a "bad employee", they made it out of the factory and were shipped.  Mitch also alleges that there are bowlers that actively seek out balls that fall in the serial number range so they can have the softer covers.

Now, getting back to the USBC's latest statement which was not mentioned on the podcast (the urethane ball study was, however.)  The USBC has been aware that urethane softens over time, but then stabilizes after a certain amount of time.  If the USBC is aware of this, and knows that all urethane balls soften to a level well below the minimum hardness requirement when new, why would they continue to approve any urethane ball?  If that is the case, the argument could easily be made that balls should not be deemed illegal simply because of age.  Are we going to reach a point in USBC competition where a urethane ball tests at 68D, but is still legal due to age?  The USBC's statement seems to condone the softening below minimum due to age.

Increasing the minimum hardness spec to 73D as of 8/1/22 doesn't do anything to address the issue.  If 72D urethane balls are already dropping below 70D due to age, increasing the starting hardness to 73D isn't going to stop that from happening.

Ultimately this whole issue is just pointless.  A human still has to be able to accurately and consistently throw a ball.  As they say, "it isn't the ball, it's the bowler."  If these urethane balls were really causing that much havoc on tour, you would be seeing bowlers every week winning the championship using urethane.  I don't see urethane winning each and every week.  It may be in the hands of people in match play, but it isn't in the champion's hand every week.

The PBA made the best decision they could to address the problem.  It simply means that Simo won't be using his Roto Grip Grenade any longer.  The Kentucky Purple Hammers are out of play.  No more Hot Cells, early Mixes, Pitch Blacks or Pitch Blues, etc.  Tommy Jones was using a U-Motion for spares in the ToC.  That is still legal but only by a couple of months.  The PBA equipment truck is going to be really busy the next couple of tournaments.  Hope the ball companies get it stocked up with fresh urethane ;)

ignitebowling

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2022, 08:25:17 AM »
They made a new rule because they don't have the staff to test balls every week to enforce the rules they already have.  Up until the last couple of majors the PBA hasn't weighed or checked hardness of balls in about 20 years.

No different then how USBC works.

As an example with the PBA you can have an undrilled original purple urethane but with a rule using the serial number to determine age/use then it wouldn't matter because the ball is out of range even if it is undrilled. 

If bowlers really wanted to cheat the system wouldn't they need to figure out what makes the ball softer and attempt to speed up the process. We know temperature affects hardness if oil does as well then you go back to soaking them? The pba isnt going to check so you get the appearance of integrity.

What would be easier and make sense is if the PBA went to USBC and used throwbot to compare urethane with a high number of games, low number of games and one freshly drilled to see if there is a concernable difference. That requires effort and half a thought.
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2022, 08:36:03 AM »
This isn't a urethane issue, it's a purple hammer issue.  The way I see it is the problem is the company that is the biggest supporter of competitive bowling, Storm, doesn't have a ball that matches up against the purple hammer. 

Bowl_Freak

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Re: Interesting PBA weekend
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2022, 09:03:51 AM »
People hoping to ban urethanes are jumping for joy now.