Author Topic: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before? (Read 4118 times)

HamPster · « **on:** September 20, 2003, 04:53:01 AM »

This is my last year bowling righthanded. I'm going to finish out the entire season this year (until May), but I'll be only practicing lefthanded. And I'm going to ONLY bowl lefthanded. I know there are several people who bowl ambidextrously, but have any switched completely from one hand to the other? I was practicing today, and everything just keeps getting worse and worse. My game has deteriorated so much that I can't stand to see shot after shot off target. I used to be good, I used to be able to hit marks, I KNEW what move to make and when to make it, I could read lane changes and adapt. Now I have only the mental side left, my physical performance is trash. My arm and hand are so weak and screwed up that I can't even get the ball in the general area that I want to anymore. I tried practicing today, and I could NOT get a clean shot off my hand to go outside 3rd arrow. The ball would roll over that damn arrow every single time. If I got it outside of 3rd arrow, it was only because I dumped it. So as I've done just for fun a lot, I started bowling lefthanded. My fingers and thumb are so much stronger on my left hand, I can keep my thumb straight and hold onto the ball, and I have an incredible release. Just the way it's supposed to be, my thumb slides right out, and I can really catch the ball with my fingers. I'm also incredibly versatile, I can play 4th arrow, and with a snap of my fingers switch to 1st arrow. The clean release makes it all possible. I trust the ball better, I'm in a better frame of mind, everything. The only thing I don't totally have down is the coordination to repeat shot after shot. My fingers and hand also get tired after four or five games. I have to use plastic, but I can pick up the 7 nearly every time I shoot at it. For as little as I've used my left hand, everytime I bowl with it, I make gigantic jumps in skill everytime. I'm not abandoning all hope in my right arm, but I'd rather start making the transition now and see what my situation is in May. And hey, I've got the entire side to myself too . .
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HAH! I don't know ANYBODY now!

Being in adult leagues teaches you many things.

1. You're not on top anymore, but there are a lot more people that suck worse than you do now.

2. The myth about the youths having an easier shot is NOT TRUE. I'd have an entire ring collection if it was.

3. Drunk adults are a lot funnier than drunk youths.

HamPster · « **Reply #16 on:** September 21, 2003, 01:36:07 PM »

Thanks a lot everyone. I KNOW that my problem is lack of strength in the right places. When my hand and arm magically feel great, I bowl well. I do appreciate the comments, Leftycrank and Jim. My problem seems to be no matter how I do anything that I'm always holding onto the ball harder with my thumb than I am with my fingers. I hold onto the ball in the wrong place with my thumb, and in order to let go at the release, I end up taking my entire hand out of it. When I try to relax everything and straighten everything from my elbow to my hand out, I always catch up at the release. With my other hand, as I've said, my fingers and thumb are pretty strong, and I can do everything that my coordination allows. If I could somehow quit bending my thumb to hang onto the ball, and keep my fingers strong instead of relaxing them, I'll be able to fix things. I remember a tournament last year that was on a sport pattern that was pretty dry (back when I was good, lol). I tried a few different things in practice, and ended up going straight up the back of the ball, letting it down at about 25, never getting it outside 12, and my breakpoint was at about 35 feet or earlier. I led the tournament every single game up until the last one, and ended up losing by 12 pins after 16 games. I averaged 203 for the 16 games. I keep going back to that tournament in my mind, because I bowled very well, and it required something from my game that I hadn't needed to use before. I adapted within the first game, changed hand positions, added speed and took revs off. I used to effectively be able to use plastic on burnt sport patterns. I qualified first in a tournament that used a JOG shot, and used my White Dot for the last 3 games of qualifying. It's just so discouraging. I might as well have had an injury like LuckyLefty. I don't know what happened or what I changed, but man it's frustrating.
--------------------
HAH! I don't know ANYBODY now!

Being in adult leagues teaches you many things.

1. You're not on top anymore, but there are a lot more people that suck worse than you do now.

2. The myth about the youths having an easier shot is NOT TRUE. I'd have an entire ring collection if it was.

3. Drunk adults are a lot funnier than drunk youths.

Game In a BoxLC · « **Reply #17 on:** September 21, 2003, 03:51:24 PM »

theres an old saying, if a man is convinced he is going to die today, he will probably find a way to make it happen.

From reading your posts and attitudes on this board, it is my belief you are very self defeating, your worry about doing the right thing, you wish oh please make this shot instead of having confidence in doing it.

To perform to the absolute best you can, you must have confidence in yourself that you can do what is required to be done, and right now you have none. You defeat yourself before you even step onto a lane saying well i can't bowl because this happens, or i cant throw a good shot because i bend my thumb or whatever.

Don't sweat the small stuff, believe in yourself, as you said in your earlier post you have proven before you can accell at this game, and according to your profile you have only done it three years and have accomplished alot, many of us including myself have been bowling upwards of 20 years, some even longer than that. Of course we have better muscle memory and better coordination or better feel for the game, we simply have done it for so long it is a very natural thing, much like learning to write, or riding a bicycle. I've bowled since i was 2 years old, i've done it so much it seems like a very natural motion. For you it seems you need to force the issue, but if you have mechanical problems now, you are lucky because you only have 3 yrs of muscle memory to correct, when someone like me has a problem, i might have been doing it for 10 years, it is much much more difficult to correct.

My suggestion is this. Do what we said physically practice wise, work out your wrists if you have to or whatever, get a wristband, anything.

Mentally, remind yourself on the way to the lanes the times you have been successful in this game, concentrate on how your mechanics felt, think of what it looks like, or felt like. Go into the lanes or league not thinking or hoping to shoot well that night. Go in being absolutely positive you are going to shoot well. If you get tapped, or a bad break, forget about it and keep this attitude. Confidence is a huge factor, you may have a solid phyiscal game, but mentally as you said you only have 3 years of mental makeup, you need to learn some of the basic mental principals which make good bowlers great.

Hope this helps, if you have any questions or need more detailed info respond in this thread or message me.
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am i still considered a lefty, i never get to play the left side of the lane

michelle · « **Reply #18 on:** September 21, 2003, 04:43:17 PM »

I considered trying to make the switch when I broke my hand (I really got frustrated sitting around not being able to bowl) and had gone so far as to acquire a pair of LH Dexter SST 5's. I had equipment that was a mild RH drill that probably would have worked for me port-siding it. Having watched people I knew make the switch, including one that has thrown 800's from both sides, I knew it was feasible. That was as far as I got though before getting stupid and rushing the return to the lanes...

However, while I can see some advantages to being able to throw from both sides, I agree with LeftyCrank300 that perhaps hampy is bowling poorly because he is trying to think too much. Too many changes to the game all at once add to the problems. Getting out of the place he is requires a complete deconstruction of the game and going back to basics...even if it means being reduced to weaker equipment and playing up 3, 8 10 or what ever board one wants to puck it up.

Figure out what it takes to put on the mental blinders and simply quit thinking and let the ball go. When you remove the mind from the equations, it is amazing what one can do with the bowling ball

CoachJim · « **Reply #19 on:** September 23, 2003, 06:13:30 AM »

quote:
I wouldn't be so sure of your mental game.
You kick yourself a lot and that's NOT a sign of a strong mental game.
The more you beat yourself up about what you are doing wrong, the longer it will take you to REALLY see it and figure out what set up that particular compensation. Not what's wrong! Hell, even a hack like me can see what's wrong.

Poking fun at one's self is not nesessarily a sign of a bad mental game. Sometimes it helps to make yourself feel like you are at your lowest point so you can rise up again, and if he fails at bowling there are many comics that make a good living bashing themselves so all is not lost either way.

CoachJim · « **Reply #20 on:** September 23, 2003, 06:24:05 AM »

Hamster it sounds as if you have a fitting problem and should seek out a ball driller that may have a more modern approach to drilling equipment, like using a relaxed finger tip grip. If you put your hand in the ball and your fingernails are pressing into the back of the holes, then this might be your problem.

Most ball drillers start everyone off with an old school stretched fingertip span and reverse pitch in the thumb and forward pitch in fingers. This causes the bowler to squeeze to hang onto the ball because of the reverse pitch and also causes pain in the fingers/wrist. The modern method has more of a forward pitch (not necessary forward, but more than the streched span drilling) in the thumb and more away in the fingers. The span is laid out so the front edge of the finger hole hits approximately half way between the first knuckle and the second knuckle. Bottom line the ball should grip your hand without having to squeeze to hang onto the ball.

HamPster · « **Reply #21 on:** September 23, 2003, 11:56:50 AM »

Well, I work in a pro shop, and I've tried a MILLION different things to get a better fit. I have what works the best right now, it's just all ME. When I can get a clean release, everything's fine. It's all in my thumb. I can't keep it straight, but when I do, it works out. I've tried reverse in the fingers, and I already dump it because I try too hard to get my thumb out of the ball sometimes. I do have to try a little hard to grip my fingers, I might see about some reverse now that I have 0 pitch in the thumb. The 0 pitch in the thumb gives me the cleanest release I've had so far. I'll try and put some reverse in the fingers the next ball I drill. I got a Trauma ER blem from a guy on here (lol, as soon as I send his money . .) so maybe I'll try it on that ball.
--------------------
HAH! I don't know ANYBODY now!

Being in adult leagues teaches you many things.

1. You're not on top anymore, but there are a lot more people that suck worse than you do now.

2. The myth about the youths having an easier shot is NOT TRUE. I'd have an entire ring collection if it was.

3. Drunk adults are a lot funnier than drunk youths.

Strider · « **Reply #22 on:** September 23, 2003, 04:50:33 PM »

If it's mostly thumb feel, have you tried Thumbstraight or Magic Carpets? Ron does offer free samples. How about some lessons from your ABC or PBA friends?
--------------------
Penn State Proud

CoachJim · « **Reply #23 on:** September 23, 2003, 11:26:56 PM »

Check your span and pitches from this chart Lucky Lefty posted a while back, it helped me. If this checks out OK for you then you need to learn to keep your thumb nail on the back of the thumb hole and lock the front of the thumb in by jaming it in straight so that the front of the thumb hole pulls on the webbing between your thumb and palm thus locking your thumb in place. Most squeezing is caused by a subconcious fear of the gutter and dropping the ball in it, or just being a control freak who must control every aspect of the game throughout the delivery, this might also explain the bent elbow. I used to be one of those until I learned to play straight up the one board. After throwing countless shots in the channel learned to just relax and swing the ball without fear of the gutter. I didn't think I was afraid of the gutter until I moved out there and pulled the ball into the 7 pin about 5 or 6 shots in a row.

The following is Lucy Lefy's post and my thanks again to him.

Lately guys know I'm drilling balls at the little proshop in the back at home.

Having a lot of fun with it.

Top bowlers are coming up all the time with thumb problems and saying you know I go here but I've got this etc.

The number one thing I'm seeing from top bowlers are bruises or callouses under the base of the thumb and pain in this area!

Dangerous!

It appears the trends are to use less and less reverse pitch in the thumb or even to go forward. All with no understanding of how these pitches are suppossed to have some relationship to span.

Many people just want 0 forward/reverse pitch or maybe forward when maybe that is appropriate for their hand or maybe it isn't.

To compound the problem many are now saying I don't like Bevel, Norm Duke doesn't use bevel.

One top bowler around here tried 0 forward reverse for his shorter span and loved it. He loved it so much that he then went to 1/4 inch forward using a custom thumb. He now has a big bruise under his thumb, slight nerve damage, wears a patch there and may have to take a couple of weeks off.

Here are the basic concepts.

Bill Taylor created the following table. It is a great starting point.
It is based on 63 degrees of angle between the top of finger holes to thumb line and the thumb hole forward reverse angle.
Each increase of 1/8 inch of span increases reverse pitch 1/16, and each decrease of 1/8 inch of span decreases reverse pitch 1/16 of an inch.

For reference the table starts at 4 1/4 = 0 forward reverse pitch.

4 inch span = 1/16 forward pitch
4 1/4 span = 0 pitch
4 3/8 = 1/16 reverse
4 1/2= 1/8 reverse
4 5/8 = 3/16 reverse
4 3/4 = 1/4 reverse
4 7/8 = 5/16 reverse
5 = 3/8 reverse

People with dry thumbs, short thumbs (shorter than 2 1/4), and dropping problems should probably go 1/8 forward from the tables.

People with wet thumbs, long thumbs (longer than 2 1/2), and hanging problems not caused by bevel usually should add 1/8 reverse to the tables.

For example I should use about 3/16 reverse at 4 11/16 but I tend to like 1/16 to 1/32 reverse only due to a shorter but very dry thumb that has no problem releasing fast!

Recently being aware of lots of thumb damage in my area I went to 0 with a custom thumb and did not increase the front thumb bevel. One game and already I started to develop a little ping under the thumb. Instantly I jumped on it and applied a light touch of extra front bevel to the front surface(ring finger test) and problem fixed.

One decreases Pitch every 16th of an inch while keeping the span the same it is like making the span 1/8 of an inch longer in feel. Your thumb has to stretch and make it around the lip of the thumb. THis point if left at the same sharpness as it was for a workable span pitch setup will be essentially pointier if left with the same bevel. Note you've decreased your thumb angle to less than 63degrees. Decrease reverse pitch, leave span the same = increase front bevel for safety.

Don't damage YOUR thumb, don't blindly go forward and damage those important nerves in the base of your thumb. Don't copy a PBA or local star they may have a much more relaxed span in relation to their hand than you do.

Pitch should not be viewed in a vacumm. It should be viewed in the context of your span, your tendancy with the ball, and bevel should not be copied either.

Your hand may have the need for lots of bevel or very little based on the amount of webbing you have between your index finger and thumb.

More web = exposed nerves = more bevel. Less web = nerves in hand not web area = less bevel.

Protect that gifted hand of yours.
Don't follow drilling trends blindly without knowing your hand and your proper span!

REgards,

Luckylefty

CoachJim · « **Reply #24 on:** September 23, 2003, 11:27:28 PM »

Check your span and pitches from this chart Lucky Lefty posted a while back, it helped me. If this checks out OK for you then you need to learn to keep your thumb nail on the back of the thumb hole and lock the front of the thumb in by jaming it in straight so that the front of the thumb hole pulls on the webbing between your thumb and palm thus locking your thumb in place. Most squeezing is caused by a subconcious fear of the gutter and dropping the ball in it, or just being a control freak who must control every aspect of the game throughout the delivery, this might also explain the bent elbow. I used to be one of those until I learned to play straight up the one board. After throwing countless shots in the channel learned to just relax and swing the ball without fear of the gutter. I didn't think I was afraid of the gutter until I moved out there and pulled the ball into the 7 pin about 5 or 6 shots in a row.

The following is Lucy Lefy's post and my thanks again to him.

Lately guys know I'm drilling balls at the little proshop in the back at home.

Having a lot of fun with it.

Top bowlers are coming up all the time with thumb problems and saying you know I go here but I've got this etc.

The number one thing I'm seeing from top bowlers are bruises or callouses under the base of the thumb and pain in this area!

Dangerous!

It appears the trends are to use less and less reverse pitch in the thumb or even to go forward. All with no understanding of how these pitches are suppossed to have some relationship to span.

Many people just want 0 forward/reverse pitch or maybe forward when maybe that is appropriate for their hand or maybe it isn't.

To compound the problem many are now saying I don't like Bevel, Norm Duke doesn't use bevel.

One top bowler around here tried 0 forward reverse for his shorter span and loved it. He loved it so much that he then went to 1/4 inch forward using a custom thumb. He now has a big bruise under his thumb, slight nerve damage, wears a patch there and may have to take a couple of weeks off.

Here are the basic concepts.

Bill Taylor created the following table. It is a great starting point.
It is based on 63 degrees of angle between the top of finger holes to thumb line and the thumb hole forward reverse angle.
Each increase of 1/8 inch of span increases reverse pitch 1/16, and each decrease of 1/8 inch of span decreases reverse pitch 1/16 of an inch.

For reference the table starts at 4 1/4 = 0 forward reverse pitch.

4 inch span = 1/16 forward pitch
4 1/4 span = 0 pitch
4 3/8 = 1/16 reverse
4 1/2= 1/8 reverse
4 5/8 = 3/16 reverse
4 3/4 = 1/4 reverse
4 7/8 = 5/16 reverse
5 = 3/8 reverse

People with dry thumbs, short thumbs (shorter than 2 1/4), and dropping problems should probably go 1/8 forward from the tables.

People with wet thumbs, long thumbs (longer than 2 1/2), and hanging problems not caused by bevel usually should add 1/8 reverse to the tables.

For example I should use about 3/16 reverse at 4 11/16 but I tend to like 1/16 to 1/32 reverse only due to a shorter but very dry thumb that has no problem releasing fast!

Recently being aware of lots of thumb damage in my area I went to 0 with a custom thumb and did not increase the front thumb bevel. One game and already I started to develop a little ping under the thumb. Instantly I jumped on it and applied a light touch of extra front bevel to the front surface(ring finger test) and problem fixed.

One decreases Pitch every 16th of an inch while keeping the span the same it is like making the span 1/8 of an inch longer in feel. Your thumb has to stretch and make it around the lip of the thumb. THis point if left at the same sharpness as it was for a workable span pitch setup will be essentially pointier if left with the same bevel. Note you've decreased your thumb angle to less than 63degrees. Decrease reverse pitch, leave span the same = increase front bevel for safety.

Don't damage YOUR thumb, don't blindly go forward and damage those important nerves in the base of your thumb. Don't copy a PBA or local star they may have a much more relaxed span in relation to their hand than you do.

Pitch should not be viewed in a vacumm. It should be viewed in the context of your span, your tendancy with the ball, and bevel should not be copied either.

Your hand may have the need for lots of bevel or very little based on the amount of webbing you have between your index finger and thumb.

More web = exposed nerves = more bevel. Less web = nerves in hand not web area = less bevel.

Protect that gifted hand of yours.
Don't follow drilling trends blindly without knowing your hand and your proper span!

REgards,

Luckylefty

HamPster · « **Reply #25 on:** September 24, 2003, 01:41:46 AM »

Eh, thanks guys. I agree 100 percent with everything you say. It's just that I already knew that stuff, that's what's so frustrating. I know exactly what to do, and exactly what to change, everything. My hand just won't cooperate. Even in practice when pins don't count, I can't fix it. I've sat and listened to Rick Benoit numerous times before, and I use all that stuff, and I might be alright for a game, and then my hand is already tired or something. Part of it is the lanes I've been practicing on. I was fine until I started bowling at this house. Everything rolls at 35 feet or doesn't roll at all. So basically the high powered crankers score the best, and strokers or fluffers don't do very well at all unless they're skilled. I don't have the strength to throw that hard with that many revs. I can't even throw weak stuff. Once again, it rolls at 35 feet or doesn't roll at all. Doesn't matter if it's a chalk ball or a plastic ball. Even lefthanded. I can take all my righty drilled stuff, and it reacts the same on the left side. 35 feet or not at all. The pattern is 23 feet buffed to 37. The ball starts moving early if you try to play straight, and rolls late or rolls out if you play inside. I can't throw it fast enough to turn around the side of it, and the backends aren't strong enough to turn around the side of it with lower revs. And with how screwed up my game is right now, I couldn't hit an area 4 or 5 boards wide consistently. I bowled so bad tonight that I'm thinking of dropping all my leagues this year and just saving the money. That way I won't drag my team down, the vacancy score of 190 just might help them out, and I can save the 150 bucks a month that I waste on leagues so I can just start fresh next year lefthanded. I practiced better lefthanded than I bowled righthanded tonight, let's just put it that way.
--------------------
HAH! I don't know ANYBODY now!

Being in adult leagues teaches you many things.

1. You're not on top anymore, but there are a lot more people that suck worse than you do now.

2. The myth about the youths having an easier shot is NOT TRUE. I'd have an entire ring collection if it was.

3. Drunk adults are a lot funnier than drunk youths.

Author Topic: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before? (Read 4118 times)

HamPster

A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

HamPster

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

Game In a BoxLC

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

michelle

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

CoachJim

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

CoachJim

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

HamPster

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

Strider

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

CoachJim

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

CoachJim

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?

HamPster

Re: A change of a gargantuan nature. Has anyone done this before?