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Author Topic: Is a sub a member of the league?  (Read 16655 times)

Nicanor

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Is a sub a member of the league?
« on: April 21, 2010, 01:00:31 AM »
We had a meeting last night and we were told that a sub is not a member of the league.  They fill out a no fee card for the league or a fee card and pay for the card if they don't already have a USBC card.  So are subs members of the league?

Hopefully the answer is in the USBC rules or organizational handbook.




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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
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TWOHAND834

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 09:13:50 AM »
Should be.  If that "sub" bowls 21 or more games in that league, it still goes into the book.  Plus, that person has to fill out a sanction card in order to be able to bowl.  Only way I would think they wouldnt be is if it was stated in the bylaws.  Not sure if it is in the USBC Rulebook though.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2010, 09:34:53 AM »
Here's from the rule book.

107c. Substitutes and/or Replacements
A substitute is a bowler who replaces another who is scheduled to participate in a USBC league, or bowls for a
team with an incomplete roster.
The following shall apply to substitutes and/or replacements:
1. Scores bowled by a substitute shall count for the games bowled.
Chapter 4: League Rules 51
2. A substitute must be a member of USBC, a state association and a local association, where required.
3. A substitute may bowl with any team in the league, but may not compete on more than one team in
the same league for any regularly scheduled games each week, unless otherwise provided by league
rule. (See Rule 107a.)
4. The average of a substitute shall be kept. Should a substitute later be added to a team’s roster, his/
her average shall be continued.
5. Scores bowled through the efforts of more than one individual player shall not qualify for league or
USBC individual awards. (See Rule 118a for average information.)
6. In mixed leagues, a substitute or replacement may be of either gender, unless otherwise provided by
league rules.
7. A player removed from a game cannot return to bowl in the same game.
8. Substitutes are not entitled to attend league meetings.
9. A team must be allowed to add a replacement when its roster is less than the playing strength of
the league.
10.   Unless otherwise provided by league rules:
a.   Substitutes are not required to pay league fees.
b.   A captain may replace any player at any time during a game with another eligible player.
c.   When substitutes are made during a game, the score counts only for team score.
d. A team using a substitute is eligible for all high team prizes.
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Nicanor

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2010, 10:00:29 AM »
Thank you for the responses.  but it is not clear, it kinda sounds like a sub is not a member of the league.




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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2010, 10:04:54 AM »
quote:
Thank you for the responses.  but it is not clear, it kinda sounds like a sub is not a member of the league.
I'm not sure what you mean by "member of the league." Maybe I'd understand better if you explain why this was an issue.

Phoneman

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2010, 10:31:49 AM »
I am guessing here but, do you have a guy that has subbed most of the year and now has high game or high average and is looking to win some money for that at the end of the year?  This has happened to me a few times over the years.  If he has been subbing and has met the leagues rules for prize eligibility for games bowled (usually 75%) then he is eligible to receive prize money if the league does not state in its rules that subs are not eligible. I have received this type of prize money a few times.  Remember even if the sub is not paying for that league someone is on his behalf.  I would not sub in a league that has in its rules that subs are not eligible for prize money if I was going to be a long term sub.  I would rather just join the league on a team.  I have this going on again this year but the league has no rules against subs winning money.  Subbed 90% of the first half of the year then joined the team as a paying member for the 2nd half.

Nicanor

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2010, 10:32:16 AM »
We were a joint USBC/TNBA league.  In opur bylaws for the league, we require all league members to apply for both a USBC card and a TNBA card.  We required this for subs also.  Now we are getting ready for the new season and the discussion is, subs are not members of the league, so they are not required to pay for the TNBA card.  But why are they required to get a USBC card.

Thanks,

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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2010, 11:09:31 AM »
quote:
We were a joint USBC/TNBA league.  In opur bylaws for the league, we require all league members to apply for both a USBC card and a TNBA card.  We required this for subs also.  Now we are getting ready for the new season and the discussion is, subs are not members of the league, so they are not required to pay for the TNBA card.  But why are they required to get a USBC card.

Thanks,

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The part of the USBC rules that seem to pertain to this would this-
2. A substitute must be a member of USBC, a state association and a local association, where required.

That league at some point had decided to require subs to have a USBC membership, but not TNBA membership.

As for WHY you''''d have to ask them the reasons for this requirement.

I would guess they dropped the TNBA requirement because. Since a sub is not the same as a regular member of the league. Maybe they derived no benefit from having a TNBA membership, so they dropped it. This could help increase the number of subs, because it would reduce the amount of fees they might have to pay.


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Edited on 4/21/2010 11:23 AM
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averagebowler

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 11:28:23 AM »
What is a TMBA? I don't get it since does a sub have the right to get any prize fund for high game or what not? Why would any subs have the right to get any of the leagues prize fun for honors. They r not in a regular roster. They r just bowlers who can only sub for a bowler who couldn't be there for some odd reason whether being sick or work. If a sub complaints about not getting anything for his honors in the league from the prize fund is an idiot. Honors for 300 or 800 yeah from USBC. Not money from the league.

LanemasterLefty

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 11:28:58 AM »
They should be if they pay into the prize fund..  If they just pay linage, then I would say no..

Aloarjr810

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 11:35:07 AM »
quote:
What is a TMBA?

TNBA

The National Bowling Association
http://www.tnbainc.org/
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Martman

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 11:37:30 AM »
Kinda related to the question on whether or not a sub is a member of a league. . . what about if on play off night, a sub has to step in for a regular member of the team.  Does he/she partake in the prize won by the team?  If so, how much is he/she entitled to?

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread with this question.

Aloarjr810

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 11:38:27 AM »
quote:
They should be if they pay into the prize fund..  If they just pay linage, then I would say no..


Plus most leagues have a rule that a bowler has to bowl at least 2/3rds of the season to qualify for a league awards.
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qstick777

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 03:06:15 PM »
quote:
Kinda related to the question on whether or not a sub is a member of a league. . . what about if on play off night, a sub has to step in for a regular member of the team.  Does he/she partake in the prize won by the team?  If so, how much is he/she entitled to?

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread with this question.



It's answered by the USBC:

 
quote:
10. Unless otherwise provided by league rules:
a. Substitutes are not required to pay league fees.
 



That's why they are subs - they are substitute bowling for a regular rostered bowler.  The regular rostered bowler is required to pay for all associated dues - lineage, prize fund, secretary/treasurer fees, etc.

Subs don't pay, so they don't get any awards.  I know plenty of people that just show up to various leagues in hopes of being picked up as a sub - it's free bowling!


qstick777

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Re: Is a sub a member of the league?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 03:14:20 PM »
quote:
I am guessing here but, do you have a guy that has subbed most of the year and now has high game or high average and is looking to win some money for that at the end of the year?  This has happened to me a few times over the years.  If he has been subbing and has met the leagues rules for prize eligibility for games bowled (usually 75%) then he is eligible to receive prize money if the league does not state in its rules that subs are not eligible. I have received this type of prize money a few times.  Remember even if the sub is not paying for that league someone is on his behalf.  I would not sub in a league that has in its rules that subs are not eligible for prize money if I was going to be a long term sub.  I would rather just join the league on a team.  I have this going on again this year but the league has no rules against subs winning money.  Subbed 90% of the first half of the year then joined the team as a paying member for the 2nd half.


 
If it was in my league you would get zippy for the 1st half, but you would qualify for 2nd half awards.


 
quote:
Substitutes may not be used during position matches, during the last five weeks of the schedule and any playoff matches.  Prospective floating substitutes must be  approved by the league officers prior to competing  in any league series.
Substitutes will not be required to pay the full weekly league fee.  Substitutes will not be eligible for league awards.


To qualify for all individual awards a bowler must have
bowled in 60 percent of the remaining games in the schedule as a regular member, or 21 games, whichever is greater.


 



Keep in mind this is just for individual awards.  Team prize money goes to the team captain for disbursement.  If the captain and regular member decided to cut you in on the 1st half prizes that would be at their discretion.