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Author Topic: Is bowling ruined for good?  (Read 23380 times)

BeerLeague

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Is bowling ruined for good?
« on: January 18, 2017, 08:39:13 AM »
Not to beat a dead horse here, but it has been bugging me lately.

I see people averaging 220+ on "house" conditions, with no real versatility, and no game other than big revs. Their spare shooting sucks.  I see guys that can miss by 5 boards in or out and still crush the pocket.   The same guys can easily shoot 450 without the free hook outside and hold inside.

I also see guys in more competitive leagues, where the shot is intentionally challenging, bring a 20X average into a tourney and get pins.  These same guys can average 220+ on walls.  This hardly seems ethical and it hurts turnout.

I guess my point is ... Can we PLEASE get rid of wall shots?  I remember the local USBC/ABC office would run tapes regularly to check for illegal "block" shots, which are known as "walls" or "THS" today.  What happened?

The combination of reactive resin equipment, blocked walls, and pins that fly like crazy has turned bowling into parody of itself.  Shot making is no longer rewarded and accuracy seems to have taken a backseat to power.  If you have both, then you are deadly but us mere mortals cannot hit dimes while putting 500 RPM on the ball.... and that brings up the 2 handed / thumb-less argument which I will not engage in but I will say I believe it should be illegal.

I know its an old, worn out subject, but the game has been destroyed.  Some people will argue that it has evolved.  I reject that.  Where is the real test of skill?

I think we could take a lesson from the PGA .... they got rid of square grooves (to put premium on accuracy over power and hit fairways), and make anchored putting illegal (it gives the golfer a physical advantage).  You can draw the same parallels to bowling....
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 09:08:32 AM by BeerLeague »

 

avabob

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2017, 03:45:24 PM »
Bowling boomed to unsustainable during the 50's partly as a result of the intrduction of the automatic pinsetter at a time when there was tremendous pent up post war demand for recreational activities.   

To the extent bowling is ruined it is really at the pro level.  This because thr powers that be on the PBA in the 70's were unable to capitalize on the popularity of the game as a spectator sport that was more popular than golf on tv.  Bowling could not capture the deep pocket advertisers that golf, with less viewership,  was getting

milorafferty

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2017, 03:50:22 PM »


Possible, but I think it's more complicated than that. Bowling has a lot more competition for entertainment dollars today than it did in the past. 

To me league bowling isn't entertainment, it is sport. However, the occasional practice bowler or music and laser light show bowler---that is entertainment. People that have that desire to compete and to win generally do not lose that desire. It seems bowling as a sport is dying, but entertainment bowling seems to be on the upswing.

Brad
[/quote]

We have a different definition of entertainment I guess. I bowl leagues because I enjoy the competition, the interaction with fellow bowlers and it's something to do other than sitting home and watching television.
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bcw1969

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2017, 03:54:03 PM »
Possible, but I think it's more complicated than that. Bowling has a lot more competition for entertainment dollars today than it did in the past. 
[/quote]

To me, league bowling is sport, but the occasional bowling outing or the music & laser & light show bowling IS entertainment.  People who have that drive & desire to compete and win do not typically lose that desire--which always makes me scratch my head at the decline in league bowling. Although competitive bowling is dying , this "entertainment" bowling seems to be on the upswing.

Brad

avabob

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2017, 05:00:23 PM »
I agree with your definition today, but when the game boomed in the 50's people flocked to join leagues as a recreational activity.   That is one of the reasons that the membership boom was unsustainable.  Not only are there many more recreational activities available today, but recreational bowling ( moonlight parties etc ) as opposed to organized league bowling is itself an alternative

Double C

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2017, 11:30:04 PM »
What is a wall shot?

2handedvolcano

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2017, 08:50:57 AM »
i really wish it was on ABC again
Will expand arsenal after I polish my spares.

Juggernaut

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2017, 08:57:48 AM »
What is a wall shot?

 Assuming you are serious..........

 It is a shot where the middle of the lane has plenty of oil, but the outside of the lane is left dry. It creates a condition where the ball hooks so much when it hits the dry area, that it almost looks like the ball hit an obstruction ( like a wall) and bounced off of it.
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Double C

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2017, 02:19:21 PM »
Thank you. I'm new at bowling and trying to understand the vernacular.

nord

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2018, 09:17:00 PM »
I have to sadly agree with BeerLeague that the modern game has been jacked by the introduction of modern ball tech and easy house shots.

I am a Vintage bowler using a Vintage technique (Full Roller/Suitcase Release) and see bowlers with terrible form and technique averaging 200 because they bowl with reactive balls on a walled house shot.

If I took the reactive balls away from them and simply gave them a urethane ball that when rolled correctly would still carry quite well on the same walled house shot, they would no longer average 200 and would be clueless because it requires skill to use a urethane ball.

Yep, the ball manufacturers messed things up and easy house shots finished it.

Gone are the days when men and women in their best suits and dresses sat in respectful silence as they watched bowling giants like Don Carter and Dick Weber use simple rubber balls to create high tension and entertainment.

Check out this short video that talks about how hard and rare it was to bowl a perfect game in the past.
This pretty much puts in perspective how much we have lost in the modern game:

https://youtu.be/09PhjLG2Y80

milorafferty

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2018, 09:28:59 PM »
Okay, okay we will stay off your lawn...
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HankScorpio

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2018, 10:01:56 PM »
I have to sadly agree with BeerLeague that the modern game has been jacked by the introduction of modern ball tech and easy house shots.

I am a Vintage bowler using a Vintage technique (Full Roller/Suitcase Release) and see bowlers with terrible form and technique averaging 200 because they bowl with reactive balls on a walled house shot.

Soooo, you’re judging bowlers who have terrible form and technique while having terrible form and technique yourself. Interesting way to view the sport.

(And make no mistake about it, full roller suitcase may in fact be the worst technique possible.)

MI 2 AZ

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2018, 10:07:08 PM »
I think my spinner release is probably the worst.  :)

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avabob

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2018, 10:18:32 PM »
Actually I think More and his high tech urethane ball and fancy finger tip grip are the oroblem .  I would post more but have yo go mop another coat if shellac on the lanes😊

JessN16

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2018, 04:35:53 AM »
Two things I knew this post would have in it ...

1) A call to force everyone to sport shots,
2) Holding up golf as if it is the sport of all that is true and holy.

Let's handle the second part first: Golf is in a bigger freefall at the participatory level right now than is bowling. We just got our freefall out of the way earlier. Every participatory sport, in regards to organized competition, is dying. That has nothing to do with scoring systems or rulebooks. It has to do with the change in human beings relative to social interaction.

The square-grooves rule in golf started at the PGA level in response to a specific issue: pros hitting shots into the green from the rough, with spin. The proposed changes eventually filtered down to the USGA level. It's worth noting that the groove rule doesn't even fully take effect until 2024. So if you're trying to say the groove rule has saved golf, it hasn't, because it doesn't exist yet unless you have a PGA tour card. You can still use non-conforming clubs in USGA-sanctioned play. You are theoretically prohibited from refurbishing iron heads, but a clubfitter who knows what he's doing can refurb heads and most officials will never be able to tell it was done. Old equipment doesn't cycle out for handicap-setting purposes until 2024, and that's assuming the rule doesn't change again. It's also worth noting that there is a significant movement out there among amateur golfers to start a competing sanctioning organization and disempower the USGA (sound familiar, USBC haters?).  To put it plainly, golf has nothing to do with bowling and we have nothing to do with golf, and neither of us is "better."

Now back to the first point -- and this time, I'll be the one to bring up golf. Rounds used for handicap purposes at golf's amateur level can be held on courses with cheater pin locations, no rough, local rules for drops out of sand traps, whatever you choose. And the round can be played alone, a fake name submitted as score attester, or at some golf clubs (like my local one), there's a computer terminal in the office and you submit your own scores. You can cheat like hell if you want.

So why not cheat? Because your bad deeds will be found out the minute you enter a tournament where you're not in control of your own score reporting. There's no incentive to cheat because it doesn't get  you anywhere.

In bowling, we don't cheat in league (unless you bowl in the hundreds of leagues that opt to not run tapes, don't run foul lights, don't inspect pins, etc.). We may have an easier shot in league, but so does your local muni golf course. Once you go to a tournament, though, the game changes.

I've bowled a lot of years on a lot of different shots, and the following is true nearly everywhere:

1) You still have to hit a specific something in order to score (whether it's a board or an area),
2) The most accurate/best rollers of the ball still rise to the top of the heap eventually,
3) If you can't score on THS and they can, you need to develop a THS game, because they have, and that means it's a "you" thing and not an "everybody" thing.

Specific to two-handed bowling, I'll add this: For all the talk about how "easy" it makes the game, I know very few people who have successfully made the transition from one- to two-handed bowling. In fact, without exception, I don't know of anyone personally to have done it and improve their average. Two-handed bowling is its own skill that must be perfected just like traditional styles. But you'd think from reading some of these complaints that any old joe can just pick it up and immediately start booking 240. Sort of related to that, you would think THS makes it possible for everyone to average 220, yet everyone doesn't.

It's just not worth turning the sport upside-down to experiment with it. And if you think the majority of people will stick with the sport if it went to difficult conditions, you don't know what you're talking about.

Jess

Cornerpin

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Re: Is bowling ruined for good?
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2018, 07:36:10 AM »
1) You still have to hit a specific something in order to score (whether it's a board or an area),
2) The most accurate/best rollers of the ball still rise to the top of the heap eventually,
3) If you can't score on THS and they can, you need to develop a THS game, because they have, and that means it's a "you" thing and not an "everybody" thing.

+1000 (especially #3)

The wall/THS has been around for 40+ years now and people still complain about it.  Need to realize that it is not going away.  Then it comes down to either bowling sport shot leagues and not complaining about the THS league bowlers or changing your game to utilize the THS pattern and thus scoring better.