Post by: txbowler on February 14, 2012, 07:12:06 AM
For some bowlers, dry means, I cannot throw my Nano anymore. For others, it means my XXXL starts checking up at 30 feet. For sake of discussion going forward like we have done for reviews, can someone suggest some standards for defining heavy, medium, medium and dry conditions?
Post by: aussiedave on February 14, 2012, 05:41:04 PM
Getting a consensus may be impossible. For example, you yourself would likely have commented to someone "Wow, the lanes are dry tonight", and the other person would say, "They're not all that dry..." ....and so on. In other words, the conditions will vary from each bowler and bowling style.
Having said that, there is probably a way of measuring the amount of oil on the lanes and there is probably a range that describes the three catagories:- Oily, Medium and Dry, - Oily ranges from 100 - 67; Medium ranges from 66 - 34, and dry ranges from 33 - 0. There would not be much difference between 34 and 33 for example.
Post by: milorafferty on February 14, 2012, 05:56:31 PM
Post by: northface28 on February 14, 2012, 07:10:46 PM
This, some people get the ball right so early and instantly claim the Lanes are dry. Conversely, when they miss in on something flat in the middle, ”its dry”. Or my favorite, ”they are oily” because you cant wheel on it from 5th arrow to the gutter.
”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”
Post by: stormdamage on February 14, 2012, 07:45:53 PM
I agree, that the answer to this question is subjective, depending on who you ask. I know that with my high ball speed, I can play the same line longer on less oil than someone with slower speed can. At the same time, depending on what surface I'm on and what ball I'm thowing a fresh shot or long oil can kill me. At 18 or 19 mph and not a ton of revs, my ball can easily skid past it's breakpoint. Thus the need to play this shot with a dull ball. It's almost like asking someone what's the best ball you can buy. It will vary from one person to the next the answer you get. Just my take on the matter.
Post by: Aloarjr810 on February 14, 2012, 08:13:15 PM
There was a old thread on here where they asked about how many units of oil was considered Heavy, Medium and Light.
Here's some info I looked it up at the time. if it helps
First what is a unit of oil defined as, I found this in a 04/05 Spec. manual. (It's in the "Computerized Lane Inspection Program Manual" you can find it on bowl.com)
"A "unit" of oil is defined by the American Bowling Congress (ABC) and Women's International Bowling Congress (WIBC) as 0.0167 cubic centimeters of oil evenly spread over a 1 sq. ft. surface, which equates to a film of oil about 7 millionths of an inch thick."
Now in In USBowler Magazine Vol.2, No.3 Spring 2007 Page 12 Coach's Corner They have a article "Everything you wanted to know about lane conditions" In it they say,
Example: a piece of typing paper is about 400 units thick.
(.000007*400=.0028" A 16# bond paper is .0032" thick so that's pretty close.)
"A layer of oil 100-plus units would be considered "Heavy oil" and anything less then 50 units probably would be "Light oil".
Now in from other source's Oil, Medium and Dry is looked at in terms of length.
In the book "Revolutions 2" they define it this way,
Oil (long oil) were lanes oiled 35 to 45 feet.
Med. were lanes oiled 25 to 35 feet.
Dry (very short oil) was 18 to 25 feet.
Now in In USBowler Magazine Vol.2, No.3 Spring 2007 Page 12 Coach's Corner They have a article "Everything you wanted to know about lane conditions" In it they show it as,
Long oil as 40 feet or longer
Medium oil as 35' to 45' feet or more
Short oil 35 feet or less
Now in Bowling This Month magazine they rate ball's for Oil, Medium and Dry, the current issue is showing these patterns being used.
Oily is a 44' oil (High Street)
Medium 41' oil (Main Street)
Dry 38' oil (Easy Street)
High Street, Main Street and Easy Street, These are the Kegel Navigation Recreation Series of patterns. you can see them here.
http://www.kegel.net/patternlibrary/default.asp
Now for a comment it's not how much oil on the lane, but where it's at. Pattern's can be adjusted to make short ones appear long and long ones appear short.
Heres a quote from a article called- "Lane Pattern Basics: An Overview of Blend, Taper & Application".
Click here for the article (http://"http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=164&Itemid=46")
"the overall volume of the shot probably has the least affect, as the length that the conditioner is applied can make the "volume" almost meaningless."
When it comes to Oil and Oil patterns there are many factor's that come into play about lane condition's and how to play them. The amount of oil is one of the smaller factor's involved.
Here's some info I looked it up at the time. if it helps
First what is a unit of oil defined as, I found this in a 04/05 Spec. manual. (It's in the "Computerized Lane Inspection Program Manual" you can find it on bowl.com)
"A "unit" of oil is defined by the American Bowling Congress (ABC) and Women's International Bowling Congress (WIBC) as 0.0167 cubic centimeters of oil evenly spread over a 1 sq. ft. surface, which equates to a film of oil about 7 millionths of an inch thick."
Now in In USBowler Magazine Vol.2, No.3 Spring 2007 Page 12 Coach's Corner They have a article "Everything you wanted to know about lane conditions" In it they say,
Example: a piece of typing paper is about 400 units thick.
(.000007*400=.0028" A 16# bond paper is .0032" thick so that's pretty close.)
"A layer of oil 100-plus units would be considered "Heavy oil" and anything less then 50 units probably would be "Light oil".
Now in from other source's Oil, Medium and Dry is looked at in terms of length.
In the book "Revolutions 2" they define it this way,
Oil (long oil) were lanes oiled 35 to 45 feet.
Med. were lanes oiled 25 to 35 feet.
Dry (very short oil) was 18 to 25 feet.
Now in In USBowler Magazine Vol.2, No.3 Spring 2007 Page 12 Coach's Corner They have a article "Everything you wanted to know about lane conditions" In it they show it as,
Long oil as 40 feet or longer
Medium oil as 35' to 45' feet or more
Short oil 35 feet or less
Now in Bowling This Month magazine they rate ball's for Oil, Medium and Dry, the current issue is showing these patterns being used.
Oily is a 44' oil (High Street)
Medium 41' oil (Main Street)
Dry 38' oil (Easy Street)
High Street, Main Street and Easy Street, These are the Kegel Navigation Recreation Series of patterns. you can see them here.
http://www.kegel.net/patternlibrary/default.asp
Now for a comment it's not how much oil on the lane, but where it's at. Pattern's can be adjusted to make short ones appear long and long ones appear short.
Heres a quote from a article called- "Lane Pattern Basics: An Overview of Blend, Taper & Application".
Click here for the article (http://"http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=164&Itemid=46")
"the overall volume of the shot probably has the least affect, as the length that the conditioner is applied can make the "volume" almost meaningless."
When it comes to Oil and Oil patterns there are many factor's that come into play about lane condition's and how to play them. The amount of oil is one of the smaller factor's involved.
Aloarjr810
----------
Click For My Grip
Post by: charlest on February 14, 2012, 09:53:04 PM
You're not going to like this one ----
Medium oiled lanes are when a medium revs bowler of medium ball speed with medium tilt and rotation can use a benchmark ball, like the Columbia Benchmark, and play a medium hook (roughly 12/13 at the arrows out to 7/8 board at breakpoint and not have the ball over or under-react,
A higher ball speed or a lower rev bowler will requires a stronger ball.
A higher rev bowler or a lower ball speed bowler will require a weaker ball to play the same condition.
Medium, heavy or dry are specific to the current (time-wise) environment.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: scotts33 on February 14, 2012, 10:32:37 PM
I would pretty much agree with Jeff's position. Being that proprietor's don't put out that and dumb it down so the least common denominator skilled bowler can strike that puts the other 50% to 70% at a disadvantage but good bowlers adjust.
Scott
Post by: dizzyfugu on February 15, 2012, 12:57:17 AM
Also agree that we could - at best - boil it down to a purely technical definition, settling on pattern length and volume. I'd have problem with definitions through ball reactions, or "boards covered". That tells nothing. There are so many subjective factors like revs, speed, tilt etc. involved that results are hard to compare (if at all). Additionally, there are also lane factors like material, surface wear or even air humidity which can affect the outcome of a shot. So, IMHO, I'd keep it to technical specs, knowing that whatever the player sees will still not be representative. But at least, we'd have a consensus about what we are talking about when we make recommendations or ball reviews.
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
Post by: Walking E on February 15, 2012, 02:19:25 AM
In addition to that, you also have to be a practicing Medium
Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
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Post by: charlest on February 15, 2012, 07:33:26 AM
The problem with getting opinions of "medium" oil will be that you get a relative to everyone's ball speed/rev rate/tilt/rotation. That is not a "definition" by definition. How does the definition of medium oil for a guy who throws it 18-20 mph at the pin deck equivalent to the definition of someone who throws it 12 mph at the pin deck? They will, of course, vary a lot and be very different.
While it is true a definition of medium oil lies in the amount of oil applied over a distance and a width, that also changes with time, as I specified above. "Medium" oil in 2000 is not "medium" oil today in 2012, neither was the definition of medium oil in 1990 equal to that of 2000.
Actually, if you want to be technical, medium oil will truly not be defined by the amount of oil BUT by a defined amount of friction provided by XXX amount of YYY type of oil on ZZZ lane surface because every type of lane surface provides different degrees of friction (with wood lanes having the most friction and Anvillanes have the least) and different brands of lane oil also provide different amount of friction.
So a true precise absolute measure of "medium" oil is really a measure of the amount of friction on which a ball travels. This is complex beyond the degree of understanding of possibly 99.99% of us on this web site.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: MrPerfect on February 15, 2012, 07:40:13 AM
Probably not going to happen, because as was stated earlier the actual amount of oil doesn't have as large of an impact on the categorization of the oil pattern when compared to something such as lane surface. We use the Kegel High Street pattern as our base house shot and it's lane dependent on how the shot is classified. Unfortunately, it's also not as simple as the high or low side hooking more than one another.
Post by: on February 15, 2012, 07:48:25 AM
Is it possible for us to get a consensus for definitions on heavy, medium and dry on this board?
NO. Different lane surfaces, different lane machines, different lane conditioners, different temperatures, different humidity levels, different everything - and the fact that this is a forum...
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Allstar Lanes
Brunswick Regional Staff
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: Strapper_Squared on February 15, 2012, 08:09:18 AM
S^2
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Post by: dizzyfugu on February 15, 2012, 09:10:11 AM
And there's also the issue to define where the conditioner actually is on the lane. "38' medium oil can be anything from THS with a 10 board outside bumper to a dead flat sport shot... So many factors, it seems hopeless... :(
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
Post by: txbowler on February 15, 2012, 10:59:21 AM
Post by: Aloarjr810 on February 15, 2012, 11:55:59 AM
Found this description of a Dry Lane!
One important consideration when choosing one of these three types of (Ball)construction is lane conditions. Dry lanes are lanes that are not oiled, and a urethane bowling ball will react fairly well to these conditions and can be polished to better control the hook. However, on oiled lanes, a reactive resin or particle bowling ball will react better than urethane.
Heres where that came from. Some dodgy info LOL
Edited by Aloarjr810 on 2/15/2012 at 2:06 PM
Post by: charlest on February 15, 2012, 12:06:35 PM
But by saying, " a urethane ball will react fairly well on these conditions", they're already contradicting themselves, whoever they are. I've seen plastic roll out at the arrows on unoiled lanes, but again unless you define all factors thoroughly, like the lane surface, you're mixing terms and environments so that there are too many unknowns.
Friction provided by the environment is one operative word: that's oil + lane surface.
FRICTION provided by the ball's surface and the bowler's ball speed is the other operative word.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: MrPerfect on February 15, 2012, 01:33:24 PM
Personally, this is why I've never been the first one to go out and buy a ball. If I get a ball from a manufacturer for free to try and write a review on, sure I'll pop 3 holes in it and see where it fits. However, if it's my own money I always make sure to purchase proven products for the reaction I'm looking for in the conditions I want it to perform on.
Post by: tommyboy74 on February 15, 2012, 04:11:06 PM
+1 on this. That is the best way to go when spending money on any new ball. Only exception I made was when I bought my VG Nano. I was the first at the shop I go to in getting it. I liked it but the Defiant is a better match for me.
My arsenal (as of February 2012)
Heavy Oil: Roto Grip Defiant (solid): 3000 ABMedium-Heavy Oil: Track 919C (solid): 3000 AB
Medium-Heavy Oil: Ebonite Vital Energy (pearl): 4000 AB
Medium-Heavy Oil: Ebonite Vital Energy (pearl): 4000 AB
Medium Oil: Hammer Brick (hybrid): 2000 polished
Medium-Light Oil: Track 505T (solid): 4000 AB
Post by: dmonroe814 on February 15, 2012, 06:50:46 PM
I personally like to go with length plus volume of oil. A patter of 38ft with 27ml of oil will seem like a lot more oil than 42 ft with 17ml. Get what you think is a good benchmark of medium oil ball. Check it aganist the manufacturers ratings. I personnaly like the ratings in bowlingball.com. They have a "perfect score" rating system that compares balls "potential hook rating" with all other balls. As one person said the drill, core, and coverstock combination can drastically affect the ball. If you have a ball for medium oil, then you can drill it weaker and polish it and use it for dry lanes. You can take the same kind of ball, drill it for agressive hook, put a rough sanding on it and use it for oilly lanes. Oily, medium and dry lanes are more the individuals perception. I went to the nationals last year and thought the lanes were medium oiled at most. Several other bowlers thought they were heavily flooded. I don't throw the ball as hard as I used to and now I have a lot more hand in it. The balls I used to use for oily lanes, I cannot use any more. Now I roll balls on medium lanes that other people consider dry lane balls. I guess there is no numer answer to your question, it is mostly personal perception.
Old Man Still Learning
300x4 800x3 (High 814x2)
Hi Avg 218 Cur Ave 214
Tweener-Cranker (14Mph 350Revs)
Heavy: Storm VG Nano 4000AB Pol / C300 World Beater Pol
Medium: C300 Outburst Pol / C300 Game Pearl
Light: C300 Scout Reactive / Brunswich Avalanche Pearl
300x4 800x3 (High 814x2)
Hi Avg 218 Cur Ave 214
Tweener-Cranker (14Mph 350Revs)
Heavy: Storm VG Nano 4000AB Pol / C300 World Beater Pol
Medium: C300 Outburst Pol / C300 Game Pearl
Light: C300 Scout Reactive / Brunswich Avalanche Pearl
Post by: dmonroe814 on February 15, 2012, 06:53:01 PM
That would be me. Team USA 38 feet proved that to me in the sport league this past summer. Just couldn't handle it.
Old Man Still Learning
300x4 800x3 (High 814x2)
Hi Avg 218 Cur Ave 214
Tweener-Cranker (14Mph 350Revs)
Heavy: Storm VG Nano 4000AB Pol / C300 World Beater Pol
Medium: C300 Outburst Pol / C300 Game Pearl
Light: C300 Scout Reactive / Brunswich Avalanche Pearl
300x4 800x3 (High 814x2)
Hi Avg 218 Cur Ave 214
Tweener-Cranker (14Mph 350Revs)
Heavy: Storm VG Nano 4000AB Pol / C300 World Beater Pol
Medium: C300 Outburst Pol / C300 Game Pearl
Light: C300 Scout Reactive / Brunswich Avalanche Pearl