Author Topic: Is it the ball technology?? (Read 4126 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** February 16, 2010, 07:53:11 AM »

Everyone talks about how the equipment today is high scoring and makes the game way easier. Is it the equipment? Or is it the lane maintanence?
Yeah the coverstocks and cores have something to do with it but has the advances in the lane machines made the shot easier. They can strip every drop off the lane and put the oil exactly where you want it and at the volume you want. Back in the old days you had to clean/strip the lanes by hand. I doubt that was done consistantly. You also had oil metering that wasn't very accurate or consistant as far as volume and placement.

I just ask because I see guys tearing up house shots with older technology urethane. We had a guy average 222 with his plastic spare ball last year.
He would have been a god in the 60's , 70's, and 80's if he averaged 220 with a yellow dot.

I'm not an expert how things used to be done so if anyone has any input that would be great..
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JohnP · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2010, 10:34:08 PM »

quote:
Balls in the resin era ( which is now approaching its 20th year ) give higher carrypotential than balls from the prior era, but do nothing to help you find the pocket easier. Indeed, because of their friction, they actually make it tougher to stay in the pocket over a period of games.

Bob, I've got to disagree with you if the shot is a THS. Back in the rubber and plastic ball days I bowled on some pretty strong blocks, but don't ever remember having more than a 3 board area to get to the pocket. With the resin balls some times I've got 5. Resin reacts more strongly to the dry on the outside of the lane bringing the shot back better. Now, if you're talking about PBA or sports shots I agree with you. -- JohnP

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2010, 10:53:21 PM »

Jw...as with everything else in all other sports it is a combination of factors that have raised the scoring.

1. balls are more aggressive which helps the guys with the weaker releases get the ball to the pocket and carry better.

2. the new lane machines have made it easier for a lane man to put out a shot that is able to be tweaked when a given style of bowler is struggling. again this helps more people score better.

3. most of the lanes have changed from wood to synthetics now which do not transition as fast or as much as wood lanes do.

4. the price of the new bowling balls has not risen appreciably in the last 20 years. I paid $145 drilled for a NIB Blue Hammer in 1991. Today the top end balls are $195. Yes $50 is significant but when compared to the price increases seen in other industries it's not bad. I mean golf clubs have gone up way more than 30% in that time and let's not even talk about the auto industry...

So when you factor in stronger balls, softer lane conditions, oils that do not carry down, synthetic lanes that do not transition much and you get much higher scores. What you are also seeing is a wider variety of bowling styles shooting the bigger scores than ever because of the combination.
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JessN16 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2010, 11:02:46 PM »

While it''s mostly balls and walls, you guys can''t gloss over the modern style (the Roth/Monacelli game). How many guys turned the ball that much prior to Roth, and how many open-hand-bent-armswing, yo-yo release guys were there prior to Monacelli? You can go to any scratch league in the country now and find a dozen, but I remember when Monacelli came out...the TV guys talked about him like he was a magic dragon. Quote from Mike Durbin from a tournament in 1986 when Amelto was bowling Pete McCordic: "It''s a powerful style, but I do not recommend it." Well, Mike, that''s the modern game these days.

Read Doug Kent''s comments this week on PBA.com (paraphrasing): "I''m going to retire at the end of the year...I can''t rev it like these power players can and they''re dominating the game."

Obviously, balls/walls have lifted the scoring floor, but the bowlers have much stronger physical games. If the question is accuracy and shotmaking (particularly in regards to makeable splits and combination spares), then the edge goes to the guys of yesteryear. But you take a guy like Belmonte or Robert Smith back to the 50s and watch what would happen. Belmonte has already won on tour throwing plastic (twice if you count the Chris Paul shindig) and Smith was one game away from making the telecast at the Plastic Ball Championship last year. When the shot goes to crap and those guys get to pick up the plastic, they beat folks to pieces.

Jess

Edited on 3/20/2010 11:04 PM

TamerBowling · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2010, 10:27:50 AM »

I agree with Doug, it's definitely a combination of things.
Regarding Mike Durbin's comments on Amleto, I fully agree, even in this age of more powerful athletes. That bent elbow, yo-yo type release may impart additional revs for those, it wreaks havoc on the body. Have you seen Amleto this year with the bicep injury??? You don't see Walter Ray with that type of injury. WRWJ doesn't have the "ideal" approach either, but he is obviously not destroying his body.
There are ways that the modern athlete gain leverage and increased revs, but it definitely doesn't need to be that bent elbow, snap release. Look at Michael Fagan. He looks totally effortless.
Another game I am really liking is Bill O'Neill. He gets 400-450 revs and he is stable without looking like he's ripping on the ball.
Look, I grew up when Amleto and the others where our heroes. I developed bad habits in the 80s from this, which I eventually got out of with some coaching and watching myself on video.
Modern-day athletes are stronger today, but there's definitely some help on a THS. The equipment also now helps those who are not the physical specimen or 20 years old.
To the original point of the post regarding equipment, I honestly don't think it's a bad thing. The sport evolves, just like any other. The bar simply has to be reset. Maybe 200 is not par anymore, but 220 is...
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holland1945 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2010, 10:42:33 AM »

I think the golf comparisons are the point here - bowling has changed.

It's impossible to compare bowlers from 50 years ago in their primes with bowlers today. Both sides of the argument really have merit bowlers in the 50's were certainly better shotmakers on average (only a few like Walter Ray compare in this way), but put a guy with a suitcase release on one of the PBA patterns today and there is no way he carries as well as one of today's top pros. Tiger Woods would still have been a great golfer in the days of Arnie and Jack, but maybe with wood clubs and without his muscles (not a single golfer looked like that then so neither would have Tiger) he might have been an also ran. Stick a modern club and ball in the hands of Jack in his prime and he's still not going to burn one 300+ like Tiger does routinely.

Athletes imitate the state of the art, and art forms around paradigm busting athletes (Roth, Amletto, Woods). Progress is going to happen whether you like it or not.
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Juggernaut · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2010, 11:15:31 AM »

Ball technology is merely ONE of many factors involved, but it is the ONE consumer end product involved, and the one variable from bowler to bowler, so much emphasis is placed on it. But it isn't the total reason.

Lane oils are much better now, as are the oiling machines that put it out there, not to mention the "perfect" surfaces that synthetic lanes offer. Then, you need to take into account the phenolic pindecks and kickbacks that bounce the pins around like never before.

Then, also add in the low weight, void filled, poly coated pins themselves, which were designed to fall over easier.

Now, take into account that the psyche of the modern bowler is infinitly different that his 1950's predecessor. Back then, the game was played by "down&in" players because that's the way it was played, but the modern game has forever been influenced by power players who hook the ball, so every one wants to be able to do that.

Yes, technology has changed bowling, but it wasn't ALL the ball.
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mainzer · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2010, 02:24:39 PM »

This is my thought.

In the Fox Valley area of WI their are a fair number of houses. I love to bowl all kinds of places and challenge myself.

I find the Toughest places to bowl are the older houses that dont have a modern oiler. Shots are tighter, backends are slow, carry is rancid.

I think J w73 might be unto something here.
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You think you matter.

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JessN16 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2010, 11:52:19 PM »

quote:
This is my thought.

In the Fox Valley area of WI their are a fair number of houses. I love to bowl all kinds of places and challenge myself.

I find the Toughest places to bowl are the older houses that dont have a modern oiler. Shots are tighter, backends are slow, carry is rancid.

I think J w73 might be unto something here.
--------------------
Paranoia is a very comforting state of mind
If you think they are out to get you,
You think you matter.

+++Gilbran Quail, Collected Essays "The Traitors Hand"+++(War Hammer 40,000)

Founding FatherBR Inquisition
MainzerPower

I can give you a great comparison of just that: In 2000, I bowled at Bama Bowl and Leland Lanes in Tuscaloosa, Ala. Both were natural wood houses. The oiler at Bama was a brand-new Phoenix machine and they put down THS. I booked 186.

At Leland, they had a Century wick machine and put down a shot that was 10 units outside the 10s and 20 units between the 10s. I booked 153.

At Leland, we didn't get our first 600 series that year until Week 33 of a 36-week men's league. I'm talking about THE WHOLE LEAGUE. We ended the year with two 600s on the books. Highest average was 185 and the all-men's average was 151.

Same lane surface, approximately same age of house, only difference was the oil patterns and the oil machines.

Jess

JohnP · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2010, 11:11:24 AM »

As I said earlier, the lane man still rules. -- JohnP

Author Topic: Is it the ball technology?? (Read 4126 times)

J_w73

Is it the ball technology??

JohnP

Re: Is it the ball technology??

Doug Sterner

Re: Is it the ball technology??

JessN16

Re: Is it the ball technology??

TamerBowling

Re: Is it the ball technology??

holland1945

Re: Is it the ball technology??

Juggernaut

Re: Is it the ball technology??

mainzer

Re: Is it the ball technology??

JessN16

Re: Is it the ball technology??

JohnP

Re: Is it the ball technology??