Author Topic: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state? (Read 14080 times)

BigHorhn · « **on:** March 08, 2015, 10:53:12 PM »

It seem like every other week there is a discussion on facebook about sandbagging. One person said that all the talk about re-adjusting or re-rating a bowler's average who's tournament scores are noticeably higher then there league average doesn't happen in other city's like it does in Cleveland. Do people just accept it and not complain about it?

xrayjay · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2015, 11:45:34 PM »

It's horrible here in NorCal...I don't see anyone but one person get rerated over the last couple of years. I hear complaints, but not much is done. I've learned to deal with it since it's been going on Way before I moved here from Pacific Northwest 10 years ago...

TDC57 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2015, 12:44:48 AM »

I've got the best bowler in my league ( usually 220-225 average) sandbagging this year just to win the league championship. He 's currently averaging 196. Everybody knows what's going on and a vote will be taken before our playoffs start to re-rate him.

Hoselrockets · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2015, 08:30:07 AM »

I think sandbagging is prevalent in most major bowling areas. Anytime someone can gain an advantage to win a little money some will take advantage of that situation. It does happen here in Detroit.

milorafferty · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2015, 10:04:19 AM »

Quote from: xrayjay on March 08, 2015, 11:45:34 PM

It's horrible here in NorCal...I don't see anyone but one person get rerated over the last couple of years. I hear complaints, but not much is done. I've learned to deal with it since it's been going on Way before I moved here from Pacific Northwest 10 years ago...

Wait, you mean we have sandbaggers in Nor Cal?

Seriously though, these idiots have pretty much ruined the tournament scene in this area for most lower average bowlers. There are several organizations that run handicap tournaments and the only one that makes any effort to police this crap is Peter Hagen. The rest of them just want their bracket entry money.

I'm just glad we have a strong scratch tournament calender here as well.

xrayjay · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2015, 10:51:58 AM »

Quote from: milorafferty on March 09, 2015, 10:04:19 AM

Quote from: xrayjay on March 08, 2015, 11:45:34 PM
It's horrible here in NorCal...I don't see anyone but one person get rerated over the last couple of years. I hear complaints, but not much is done. I've learned to deal with it since it's been going on Way before I moved here from Pacific Northwest 10 years ago...

Wait, you mean we have sandbaggers in Nor Cal?

Seriously though, these idiots have pretty much ruined the tournament scene in this area for most lower average bowlers. There are several organizations that run handicap tournaments and the only one that makes any effort to police this crap is Peter Hagen. The rest of them just want their bracket entry money.

I'm just glad we have a strong scratch tournament calender here as well.

it's funny how an officer from one league kicked out a whole team for sandbagging one year, then encourages it to others that he teams up in tournaments. But like I said, it's the norm here......

Polish_Hammer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2015, 11:35:55 AM »

I stopped bowling handicap tournaments years ago because of it. I would rather go to scratch events where I'm good enough to cash but not good enough to win than lose to a bagger. League baggers are unavoidable. All you can do is "shame" people.

avabob · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2015, 11:40:11 AM »

Anymore you don't even need to be a blatant sandbagger. Find leagues that are putting out tournament patterns, but not sanctioned as sport leagues and problem solved for the potential sandbagger.

dR3w · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2015, 11:47:03 AM »

I had a guy in a small league I bowl in, use his spare ball for the first 6 weeks (strikes and spares). Was averaging about 165, when he normally averages around 210-215. I personally took it up in a league meeting to have him removed. Long story short, the league vote was barely 50-50, when a 2/3rds majority was needed. Everyone told me that they knew he was cheating, but the league apparently thought the penalty of kicking him out of the league was too harsh. Just a microcosm of the problem.

s1nger1 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2015, 03:15:47 PM »

Yes it is. I know quite a few bowlers who trim 10-20 points off their average so they can bowling in tournaments. I know two guys won over 50k each before it caught up with them. One was finally given a 220 lifetime average for tournaments. He quit bowling. The other was given 200 average and I never see him bowl tournaments. However he drives a paid for Corvette with a personalized tag "Sandbagger". The issue is with enforcement of sandbaggers. Since there is no database on how much money is won by one person you can't enforce this at every tournament out there. It is based on the honor system to turn yourself in if you have won over a set dollar figure. These people have no honor or they would sand bag in the first place. They have to be turned in by someone that knows them. Most of them team with like minded players and maintain low averages back home so they don't get reported for years.

milorafferty · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2015, 03:23:57 PM »

Quote from: s1nger1 on March 09, 2015, 03:15:47 PM

Yes it is. I know quite a few bowlers who trim 10-20 points off their average so they can bowling in tournaments. I know two guys won over 50k each before it caught up with them. One was finally given a 220 lifetime average for tournaments. He quit bowling. The other was given 200 average and I never see him bowl tournaments. However he drives a paid for Corvette with a personalized tag "Sandbagger". The issue is with enforcement of sandbaggers. Since there is no database on how much money is won by one person you can't enforce this at every tournament out there. It is based on the honor system to turn yourself in if you have won over a set dollar figure. These people have no honor or they would sand bag in the first place. They have to be turned in by someone that knows them. Most of them team with like minded players and maintain low averages back home so they don't get reported for years.

Sometimes that is the case, but xrayjay and I both know of tournaments locally where the tournament director KNOWS who the sandbaggers are and doesn't do anything about it. The most notorious 'bagger in this area has finally been rerated for some tournaments, but the guy ran his scam for several years. Nothing was done because he was maxing out the brackets which is where the tournament makes it's money.

charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2015, 04:36:16 PM »

Many leagues around my area have a 10 pin drop rule: you won't get any more handicap than 10 pins below your last year's average. The only exception is a serious injury and that has to be voted on by the officers, on an individual basis.

I'm surprised more tournaments don't implement something like that: for instance, if you last years' average is more than 10 pins below your highest average for the past 3 years, your entering average at the least 10 pins less than your highest average.

xrayjay · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2015, 04:48:59 PM »

I wish they did that here......

Quote from: charlest on March 09, 2015, 04:36:16 PM

Many leagues around my area have a 10 pin drop rule: you won't get any more handicap than 10 pins below your last year's average. The only exception is a serious injury and that has to be voted on by the officers, on an individual basis.

I'm surprised more tournaments don't implement something like that: for instance, if you last years' average is more than 10 pins below your highest average for the past 3 years, your entering average at the least 10 pins less than your highest average.

charlest · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2015, 10:19:20 PM »

Quote from: xrayjay on March 09, 2015, 04:48:59 PM

I wish they did that here......

Why not bring up in the next league meeting?

Quote

Quote from: charlest on March 09, 2015, 04:36:16 PM
Many leagues around my area have a 10 pin drop rule: you won't get any more handicap than 10 pins below your last year's average. The only exception is a serious injury and that has to be voted on by the officers, on an individual basis.

I'm surprised more tournaments don't implement something like that: for instance, if you last years' average is more than 10 pins below your highest average for the past 3 years, your entering average at the least 10 pins less than your highest average.

Ken De Beasto · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2015, 02:11:55 AM »

Sounds like abt tournaments in nor cal.

Author Topic: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state? (Read 14080 times)

BigHorhn

Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

xrayjay

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

TDC57

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

Hoselrockets

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

milorafferty

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

xrayjay

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

Polish_Hammer

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

avabob

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

dR3w

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

s1nger1

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

milorafferty

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

charlest

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

xrayjay

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

charlest

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?

Ken De Beasto

Re: Is sandbagging an excepted practice in your city or state?