Author Topic: Is the ABC Nationals Fair? (Read 3495 times)

The Hose · « **on:** April 07, 2004, 10:33:39 PM »

Is it fair for bowlers to have to shoot on a shot they've never seen before? I here they are running a "sport shot". If people don't have an oppertunity to bowl or practice on a sport shot and only bowl on a THS, how is that fair?

Wouldn't that be like having a basketball team practicing on a regular size rim then all of a sudden they have to play a championship where the rim is much smaller?

A golfer has been playing with a regular ball but when it came to one tournament, they are forced to play with a ball that will not go half straight or far?

I'm kind of standing on the fence here and don't want to see a strikefest, but don't most bowlers shoot on a THS? I just here so many complaints from people saying that they can't play where they are used to and that if they miss a few boards outside, they washout or if the miss a few board in, they split.

If everyone was forced to play on a sport shot, they wouldn't be so surprised when they see that condition.

Should the ABC put out a THS or leave it tough?
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I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose

Jeffrevs · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2004, 01:49:13 PM »

Because there are too many really good bowlers on a THS, so a difficult shot separates the men from the boys....period....

It requires consistency and accuracy, ....i.e; good bowling .....
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JEFF
Better....much better!

The Hose · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2004, 01:52:25 PM »

Sawbones, those guys get plenty of practice they days before the tournament starts, don't they?

I'm not advocating a THS, I just wonder what the "BOWLERS" want. I hear more of them cry about the shot then I hear them say "Oh, its fair, I just suck"?

I'm more in favor of all houses having to go to a sport shot but that isn't going to happen, why? Because bowlers would rather go shot 1950 or 2000 and feel good about themselves and come home and tell their friends how good they bowled. I don't think they enjoy telling about their 140 game when they are a 200 average bowler.

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I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose

LuvThatWhiteDot · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2004, 02:19:29 PM »

There's 80,000 people competing at the ABC for this tournament. The ABC must be doing something right, because of the sheer number of competitors.

If people go into this tournament blindly, then they're in for a shock. However, with access to the Internet, bowl.com, this site and many others, they can pick up tips on what to expect when they get to Reno.

House bowlers are going to struggle at the ABC, because they're not going to get 12 boards of area. Since it is our national championship, the shot should be demanding yet the same for all bowlers so that in the end, the bowlers that can repeat shots are the ones that go home with the Eagle.

If the ABC ever adopts the Carry Contest Shot, I'm staying home.

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White Dot

Swing the Track and Rip the Rack!
http://faldo.atmos.uiuc.edu/FBL/mkting.html

cgilyeat · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2004, 02:26:52 PM »

Fair, yes. A THS would do nothing more than demean the scores and the winners. This is a National tournament snd needs to be a difficult, but fair shot to identify the best bowlers. Most of the complaining and whining that I've heard has come from guys who cannot adjust. Just go over over to ABC tournament web page (www.bowl.com) and read the comments from the whinners and complainers. And while the graph is not sport shot complient, I suspect that it is playing as difficult as some short shots. The guys who have been there (I don't go until the end of May) can probably verify that.

The point is, if you put a THS, there will be a lot of bowlers, myself included, who will not go. If you want to improve and be a better bowler, you have to ge off ofm the THS and find something more difficult to bowl on.

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2004, 02:30:27 PM »

quote:
Is it fair for bowlers to have to shoot on a shot they've never seen before? I here they are running a "sport shot". If people don't have an oppertunity to bowl or practice on a sport shot and only bowl on a THS, how is that fair?

I think that, in general, it's the fairest shot I have ever seen. Most people can line up for a good strike ball. YOu hit within a a board left or right of your target, with some degree of release and ball speed consistency and, in general[/], you are rewarded, as much as pins allow you to be (I am not fond of Twister pins.)

quote:

Wouldn't that be like having a basketball team practicing on a regular size rim then all of a sudden they have to play a championship where the rim is much smaller?

No! It would be like having the same height and size basketball hoop, but with no backboard and a minimum 20 foot shooting distance: no play-ups.

quote:

I just here so many complaints from people saying that they can't play where they are used to and that if they miss a few boards outside, they washout or if the miss a few board in, they split.

2 boards left and 2 boards right of your target gives one a 5 board area.
Isn't that fairly lenient? Nothing compared to a House Sot, of course.

quote:

If everyone was forced to play on a sport shot, they wouldn't be so surprised when they see that condition.
Should the ABC put out a THS or leave it tough?

If people were "forced" to play on a sport shot, a high percentage would quit.

Remember also that if you put the ABC oil pattern as indicated on the website on Brunswick Anvillane surface (the lowest friction lane surface made today) and you put it on an old wood lane (the highest friction lane surface today), you will get 2 completely different shots!
AND you will get 2 completely different transitions.

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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."

card79 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2004, 02:43:51 PM »

I have bowled on the condition. It was absolutely positively the toughest shot I have bowled on in my three years in bowling, but with the way they were continuously re-oiling the lanes and trying to maintain that tough shot for everyone. I would say yes it is absolutely fair.

One time I think a shots difficulty could board on unfair was if it was so difficult that nobody anywhere could get anywhere near the pocket and I am not sure that the lanes could even be dressed that way.

Bottom line. Make it tough enough that the cream rises to the top (and I sink to the bottom) and keep it the same for everyone then nobody has a gripe. If you want people to not complain get rid of the walls out there and then they will have nothing inflated to compare it too.
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I don't really play cards and I am not 79, but it fits together somehow.

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2004, 03:15:15 PM »

I think that one statement made by The Hose says it all. "I don't think they enjoy telling about their 140 game when they are a 200 average bowler".

If you are carrying a 200 average on a typical house shot that does not necessarily make you a 200 average bowler. A house shot is pretty simple, gives a ton of area and allows for stupid mistakes. Setting down a tough shot is the way to go. It requires a bowler to be more accurate and make more quality shots.

I personally would like to see the ABC raise the required weight in pins to stop all of the garbage shots carried on a house shot.

That is just me though----
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Owner/Operator
C-G Pro Shop

The Hose · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2004, 03:20:47 PM »

Thank you all for you input. I tossed this out there to see what your responses would be. I haven't gone yet so I don't know what to expect. I wasn't trying to say that "I" wanted a THS, but rather what the "bowlers" wanted.

I've had a few really bad ABC and I've had a couple of pretty good years.
I just wish I had a place that laid down a tough shout instead of THS's.

I've always walked away feeling like "if I would have made good shots, I could have scores".

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I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose

mumzie · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2004, 03:24:13 PM »

I agree that the shot should be tough. I agree that the true cream will rise to the top.
But if I read Hose's post right, isn't he asking for a chance to practice on the shot? I would agree with that - it'd be great if I could show up the night before I'm scheduled to bowl and throw a few shots on the tournament shot. Not 5 minutes of practice, or the dreaded 1 or 2 balls per lane. It takes me more shots than that just to get the bod firing on all cylinders.
And of course - you put the same oil pattern on different lane beds, it's going to play differently. However, no matter what surface, it's not going to play like a THS.
I am planning on practicing a bunch on a sport condition before I leave for WIBC Queens. It won't be the same sport shot, but it should at least tune my game up well enough that I will be better prepared than I would be without the practice opportunity. I think it will be great that after I bowl Queens on a sport shot, I'm then heading to Reno to see if I can sub at ABC... Should help a little with that whole accuracy thing!

pin-chaser · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2004, 07:08:30 PM »

Although last years ABC was not sport compliant, it was close. As with all ABC's is about repition and accuracy at the break point. Those who dont get out of the ball the same and those that flare there break points suffer. This is nothing done at the ABC's that prohibits scoring. There is just nothing done at the ABC's to facilitate it either. If you bowl good you can score good.
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Tex · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2004, 12:38:37 AM »

Actually one of the reasons I love the Nationals is that the shot is tuff. I finally shot 1800 last year and didn't even break 1700 the two years prior. So, I worked harder on being able to play the type pattern the Nationals puts down. If it was a strike-a-thon I would not waste my money traveling that far. Just would not be worth the trouble. Most tournaments, if brackets are your thing, you better post 220's, 230's or higher to get by. Most of the time at the ABC's a 190 can get you by and 200's should be automatic. Now honestly I am one of those guys that can roll 220 and catch the only bowler in the house that shoots 225, but that is luck of the draw. At least you feel if you make good shots, leave makeable spares and convert you have a shot to cash and take home some bracket money. Not many others around anymore that you can say that about.

tenpinspro · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2004, 03:30:22 AM »

Okay, how much more "fair" can this be?

John Merritt (edit,thanks TH834)Janawicz, FL Singles Event? I think...

300 279 279 = 858 New leader....can anyone confirm?

(edit)You guys should ask Two Hand about the shot. He hit them pretty good but to me that's based on skill and I agree TH, 858's a FANTASTIC score on an easy or hard shot for that matter.

Edited on 4/9/2004 4:08 AM

Edited on 4/9/2004 4:12 AM

Edited on 4/9/2004 12:53 PM

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2004, 04:06:06 AM »

tenpinpro,

It has been confirmed. John Janawicz shot 858 in Singles for a 2224 all events. These people are right though. The shot can't be fair if he shoots 2200 and nobody else. I DON'T CARE how fair the shot is......2200 is a ton no matter what. The ones who cry are the ones who are admitting that they are not that good to begin with and want an easier condition so they too can post a score as to not be so easily embarrassed. GOOD BOWLING, JOHN!!!!! BTW.....the shot is PLENTY fair.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

cgilyeat · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2004, 07:15:56 AM »

quote:
I think the truth lies somewhere within this next statement:

While it is true that on a Sport shot, the cream rises to the top, the bowlers who want a typical house shot put out do not want the cream to rise to the top. They want the field evened out between themselves and the bowlers who are head and shoulders better than them. The way to do that is to make the lanes soft.

Anyone agree?

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Jeff, I don't know how anyone could disagree with that. While there hasn't been a lot of complaining here about the ABC shot, over on the ABC discussion forums at bowl.com, there is a lot of complaints about the "unfair" shot in Reno. The guys who want the house shot or somthing similar don't want to be challenged or forced to get out of their confort zone. Most of these guys know hw to play one line only, stand left and throw right. If you can't adjust and repeat shots, why owuld you want anything except the THS?

Keep the shot where it is so that the cream does rise to the top.

Author Topic: Is the ABC Nationals Fair? (Read 3495 times)

The Hose

Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

Jeffrevs

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

The Hose

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

LuvThatWhiteDot

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

cgilyeat

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

charlest

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

card79

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

The Hose

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

mumzie

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

pin-chaser

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

Tex

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

tenpinspro

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

TWOHAND834

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?

cgilyeat

Re: Is the ABC Nationals Fair?