Post by: The Hose on April 07, 2004, 10:33:39 PM
Wouldn't that be like having a basketball team practicing on a regular size rim then all of a sudden they have to play a championship where the rim is much smaller?
A golfer has been playing with a regular ball but when it came to one tournament, they are forced to play with a ball that will not go half straight or far?
I'm kind of standing on the fence here and don't want to see a strikefest, but don't most bowlers shoot on a THS? I just here so many complaints from people saying that they can't play where they are used to and that if they miss a few boards outside, they washout or if the miss a few board in, they split.
If everyone was forced to play on a sport shot, they wouldn't be so surprised when they see that condition.
Should the ABC put out a THS or leave it tough?
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I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose
Post by: Jeffrevs on April 08, 2004, 01:49:13 PM
It requires consistency and accuracy, ....i.e; good bowling .....
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JEFF
Better....much better!
Post by: The Hose on April 08, 2004, 01:52:25 PM
I'm not advocating a THS, I just wonder what the "BOWLERS" want. I hear more of them cry about the shot then I hear them say "Oh, its fair, I just suck"?
I'm more in favor of all houses having to go to a sport shot but that isn't going to happen, why? Because bowlers would rather go shot 1950 or 2000 and feel good about themselves and come home and tell their friends how good they bowled. I don't think they enjoy telling about their 140 game when they are a 200 average bowler.
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I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose
Post by: LuvThatWhiteDot on April 08, 2004, 02:19:29 PM
If people go into this tournament blindly, then they're in for a shock. However, with access to the Internet, bowl.com, this site and many others, they can pick up tips on what to expect when they get to Reno.
House bowlers are going to struggle at the ABC, because they're not going to get 12 boards of area. Since it is our national championship, the shot should be demanding yet the same for all bowlers so that in the end, the bowlers that can repeat shots are the ones that go home with the Eagle.
If the ABC ever adopts the Carry Contest Shot, I'm staying home.
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White Dot
Swing the Track and Rip the Rack!
http://faldo.atmos.uiuc.edu/FBL/mkting.html
Post by: cgilyeat on April 08, 2004, 02:26:52 PM
The point is, if you put a THS, there will be a lot of bowlers, myself included, who will not go. If you want to improve and be a better bowler, you have to ge off ofm the THS and find something more difficult to bowl on.
Post by: charlest on April 08, 2004, 02:30:27 PM
quote:
Is it fair for bowlers to have to shoot on a shot they've never seen before? I here they are running a "sport shot". If people don't have an oppertunity to bowl or practice on a sport shot and only bowl on a THS, how is that fair?
I think that, in general, it's the fairest shot I have ever seen. Most people can line up for a good strike ball. YOu hit within a a board left or right of your target, with some degree of release and ball speed consistency and, in general[/], you are rewarded, as much as pins allow you to be (I am not fond of Twister pins.)
quote:
Wouldn't that be like having a basketball team practicing on a regular size rim then all of a sudden they have to play a championship where the rim is much smaller?
No! It would be like having the same height and size basketball hoop, but with no backboard and a minimum 20 foot shooting distance: no play-ups.
quote:
I just here so many complaints from people saying that they can't play where they are used to and that if they miss a few boards outside, they washout or if the miss a few board in, they split.
2 boards left and 2 boards right of your target gives one a 5 board area.
Isn't that fairly lenient? Nothing compared to a House Sot, of course.
quote:
If everyone was forced to play on a sport shot, they wouldn't be so surprised when they see that condition.
Should the ABC put out a THS or leave it tough?
If people were "forced" to play on a sport shot, a high percentage would quit.
Remember also that if you put the ABC oil pattern as indicated on the website on Brunswick Anvillane surface (the lowest friction lane surface made today) and you put it on an old wood lane (the highest friction lane surface today), you will get 2 completely different shots!
AND you will get 2 completely different transitions.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Post by: card79 on April 08, 2004, 02:43:51 PM
One time I think a shots difficulty could board on unfair was if it was so difficult that nobody anywhere could get anywhere near the pocket and I am not sure that the lanes could even be dressed that way.
Bottom line. Make it tough enough that the cream rises to the top (and I sink to the bottom) and keep it the same for everyone then nobody has a gripe. If you want people to not complain get rid of the walls out there and then they will have nothing inflated to compare it too.
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I don't really play cards and I am not 79, but it fits together somehow.
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on April 08, 2004, 03:15:15 PM
If you are carrying a 200 average on a typical house shot that does not necessarily make you a 200 average bowler. A house shot is pretty simple, gives a ton of area and allows for stupid mistakes. Setting down a tough shot is the way to go. It requires a bowler to be more accurate and make more quality shots.
I personally would like to see the ABC raise the required weight in pins to stop all of the garbage shots carried on a house shot.
That is just me though----
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Owner/Operator
C-G Pro Shop
Post by: The Hose on April 08, 2004, 03:20:47 PM
I've had a few really bad ABC and I've had a couple of pretty good years.
I just wish I had a place that laid down a tough shout instead of THS's.
I've always walked away feeling like "if I would have made good shots, I could have scores".
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I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose
Post by: mumzie on April 08, 2004, 03:24:13 PM
But if I read Hose's post right, isn't he asking for a chance to practice on the shot? I would agree with that - it'd be great if I could show up the night before I'm scheduled to bowl and throw a few shots on the tournament shot. Not 5 minutes of practice, or the dreaded 1 or 2 balls per lane. It takes me more shots than that just to get the bod firing on all cylinders.
And of course - you put the same oil pattern on different lane beds, it's going to play differently. However, no matter what surface, it's not going to play like a THS.
I am planning on practicing a bunch on a sport condition before I leave for WIBC Queens. It won't be the same sport shot, but it should at least tune my game up well enough that I will be better prepared than I would be without the practice opportunity. I think it will be great that after I bowl Queens on a sport shot, I'm then heading to Reno to see if I can sub at ABC... Should help a little with that whole accuracy thing!
Post by: pin-chaser on April 08, 2004, 07:08:30 PM
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Getting all the pins I can.
comming soon: www.bowlingknowledge.com
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Post by: Tex on April 09, 2004, 12:38:37 AM
Post by: tenpinspro on April 09, 2004, 03:30:22 AM
John Merritt (edit,thanks TH834)Janawicz, FL Singles Event? I think...
300 279 279 = 858 New leader....can anyone confirm?
(edit)You guys should ask Two Hand about the shot. He hit them pretty good but to me that's based on skill and I agree TH, 858's a FANTASTIC score on an easy or hard shot for that matter.
Edited on 4/9/2004 4:08 AM
Edited on 4/9/2004 4:12 AM
Edited on 4/9/2004 12:53 PM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on April 09, 2004, 04:06:06 AM
It has been confirmed. John Janawicz shot 858 in Singles for a 2224 all events. These people are right though. The shot can't be fair if he shoots 2200 and nobody else. I DON'T CARE how fair the shot is......2200 is a ton no matter what. The ones who cry are the ones who are admitting that they are not that good to begin with and want an easier condition so they too can post a score as to not be so easily embarrassed. GOOD BOWLING, JOHN!!!!! BTW.....the shot is PLENTY fair.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: cgilyeat on April 09, 2004, 07:15:56 AM
quote:
I think the truth lies somewhere within this next statement:
While it is true that on a Sport shot, the cream rises to the top, the bowlers who want a typical house shot put out do not want the cream to rise to the top. They want the field evened out between themselves and the bowlers who are head and shoulders better than them. The way to do that is to make the lanes soft.
Anyone agree?
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Jeff, I don't know how anyone could disagree with that. While there hasn't been a lot of complaining here about the ABC shot, over on the ABC discussion forums at bowl.com, there is a lot of complaints about the "unfair" shot in Reno. The guys who want the house shot or somthing similar don't want to be challenged or forced to get out of their confort zone. Most of these guys know hw to play one line only, stand left and throw right. If you can't adjust and repeat shots, why owuld you want anything except the THS?
Keep the shot where it is so that the cream does rise to the top.
Post by: Pinbuster on April 09, 2004, 08:51:07 AM
Shooting 858 on any condition is phenomenal. And I couldn’t shoot it on a house shot.
But this guy is technician for the Kegal company in Florida. I also believe that Kegal is in charge of the lane conditions at the stadium during the ABC tournament.
I’m not suggesting that Kegal changed the shot for his pair.
If you don’t think he wasn’t able to practice on the shot back in Florida then I can probably sell you some swamp land there as well.
Sure you can say that the lane surface was different but I’ve got a feeling with the inside knowledge they would have it would be a distinct advantage in replicating the shot.
Lord knows I don’t want a strike fest, but as Hose stated it would seem we should all the have same information and chance to train on the shot. Don’t say all I would have to do is travel to Florida and train at the Kegal center. That really isn’t an option and it is not an option for 99% of the bowlers going to the ABC.
Post by: The Hose on April 12, 2004, 10:17:36 AM
Two are 50 year olds who are in the local and State Hall of fame and two others are in the local HOF. The rest average between 180-210. The top of the group was 1740 with one of them shooting 1380!
I haven't talked to them but I can bet they are not too excited about going back. They don't bowl many tournaments nor do they get to bowl on anything other then a THS.
I'll thing I'll work on my game before going.
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I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose
Post by: Joe Cool on April 12, 2004, 11:30:00 AM
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Hit the pocket and hope for the best
Post by: C_J on April 12, 2004, 03:15:00 PM
Post by: The Hose on April 12, 2004, 03:29:45 PM
Most bowlers don't see Twisters or have a chance to bowl on those conditions. I'm more thinking of the older bowlers who make up a large % of the tournament. They don't want to travel that distance and be out the money to shot 150's when they are 200+ at home.
Sure it should be a little tougher, but I like for people to go away feeling good about what they shot.
The Oil Capital is one of the largest tournaments in our area. Why? Because the scoring is easy. Most bowlers don't care if they cash or not, they'd rather go home and tell their firends about how good they bowled. True or False?
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I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose
Post by: C_J on April 12, 2004, 03:34:42 PM
Post by: The Hose on April 12, 2004, 04:14:55 PM
quote:
Hose that Oil Capital tournament is a tough one!!!! I see where you are coming from though.
Yeah, didn't you shoot 2300+ a couple of years ago while drinking some frosty beverages? Maybe that wasn't the best tournament to post.
Maybe the Greater Ozarks in Springfield. The scoring isn't out of sight, the shot isn't a wall, but it's playable for most people. Therefore, you continue to see the tournament grow.
The ABC is a Amateur Event, not a PBA tournament. I understand the "TOC" bowling on real tough conditions, but not the ABC.
The US Amateur Golfers don't play on Masters greens conditions do they? Most Amateurs couldn't break 100 on any course with those greens.
CJ, where did Zenner try to play them? Didn't look like he found much.
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I can't help it, Hot Chicks Dig the Hose