Author Topic: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball? (Read 3199 times)

charlest · « **on:** January 10, 2012, 02:31:58 PM »

I had originally thought that the Defiant cover stock was a "sister" or twin to the cover used on the Storm Virtual Gravity Nano solid. Tonight, I received some info about some local testing that makes me think the cover is more closely related to the new Storm Vivid, which Storm says is meant to bridge the gap between the Nano solid and the Nano Pearl.

Anyway the report I got is that the Columbia Omen outhooked the Defiant at a local place famed for laying out a heavier oil amount. (My friend knows the pro shop owner, who is a good bowler with an honest rev rate of around 450 rpms.) The Omen provided a normal early ready on heavier oil as a true oiler would, while the Defiant seemed to skid forever and needed to find much more dry than expected before it hooked. I was surprised by this, let's call it an, initial report. I am curious to hear how others are finding the way in which the Defiant responds or reacts on true heavy oil.

I had thought that the Defiant would be the successor to the Theory, which I know handles heavy oil well. Now this leaves me wondering if it "just" a big hooking ball or is it an oiler?

I'm not trying to make this a Storm vs Ebonite tread. So please don't fuel that "stupidity fire". Both make excellent to great balls without a doubt. I am just wondering what type of ball the Defiant is, above and beyond the advertising.

What have you seen or done with your Defiant?

(If you're not a RG staffer, that is. Let's face it: you're slightly biased in this matter. Also let's not hear from any Columbia staffers for the same reason.)

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Edited by charlest on 1/10/2012 at 11:34 PM

grizfan · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2012, 11:19:10 PM »

I've seen a guy in our men's league go back to back 823/820 in consecutive weeks with this ball. Has an awesome reaction on a heavily oiled, flat pattern.

DeadWood Pro Shop · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2012, 01:16:22 AM »

Were the drilling the same? Bc I have seen that this ball reads early and makes a strong arcing move to the pocket on heavy oil. Bc of the early reading motion, I would see how people think the omen might be a "more hooking ball" bc it is a symmetric more angular ball. The defiant is more the stand 25 or right ball for me. But on oil it will more constantly hit the 1-3

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pro shop guy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2012, 06:37:13 AM »

not a staffer here....Mine is drilled 4x4x1....Very smooth and easy through the heads(unless burnt) smooth angular move off the dry. Not a heavy rolling ball that will handle 100 units of oil, but for most med to heavier oil it will be an awesome ball(IMHO). Put it this way on a fresh 40ft THS....I can use this without making a huge move left on the approach...Usually 4 left compared to my Elevate. Hope that helps.

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2012, 09:25:53 AM »

Thanks for helping me get a better picture of the nature of the Defiant.

Sorry, Deadwood. I was not here to see it. I got it 2nd hand but from someone I trust. That pro shop is pretty honest & straight forward or my friend wouldn't be going there. But I don't know. Not sure when I'll be able to get up there to check on how they were drilled.

Any other users?

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

bowlingnut18 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2012, 09:55:40 AM »

I might be in the minority here, but I never saw this ball as a "hooker" that most everyone for some reason chases as the "perfect ball" type. I've watched numerous videos on this ball and will punch one up tonight to use in the state tournament this weekend, I'm not expecting a ball that will put a left blinker on and make the turn, rather one which will make a move to the pocket and get there with extreme arc. Just from the little video I have seen on the Omen, both balls are worlds apart as far as intended purposes. The Omen has a lower RG than the defiant, which should promote an earlier read on the lanes, not much, but I think the intended design of the omen is to give the bowler the look of the ball reading sooner. Now I'm not saying the Defiant isn't reading sooner, but rather we cannot see it as much as when the omens core transitions through the midlane.

I've shown the defiant video's to a few people who have asked about it and they all have opened by saying "it doesnt look like it hooks so much" and "whats so special, I can do that now" then I point out to them the area in which most people are releasing the ball in the vids and they start to cue in on the smaller details. I'm not saying the defiant is the best ball out there, but I know I don't have a arc shot in my bag right now and with almost destroying my wrist 2 months ago, my new release needs a ball which can compliment my new bowling style and give me another option. It is just another bowling ball afterall, but I see this one getting me through the front 1/2 of the lane and letting me play a totally different area further down without a sharp angle with could result in blown racks/splits and nasty corners.

Not a traditional oiler in the sense that you wont see this ball turning over in the midlane giving you the feel it is working in the oil, more like a new way to handle the oil and let you play a different area in which early rolling oilers cannot get to.

cheech · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2012, 10:27:49 AM »

going back to the OP i thought the coverstock on the vivid was the NRG coverstock...just throwing it out there.

based on my experiences with high performance coverstocks and balls in general. i dont have very much success with them at all. idk if i just dont match up to really strong low RG cores but after like 2 games they never get a consistent read on anything more than med-heavy oil house shots. the covers seem to get the lane shine after a game and they never get the read like OOB did. even with early rolling layouts i either get the ball to backflip downlane or it just skips the breakpoint. the only high performance balls i have ever owned was the ultimate inferno, momentum swing, the sauce and the alpha max. other than that i get much more success on heavy and long oil with upper mid performance balls like a bedlam, sanded burst and eruption and adjust hand position accordingly. based on that info i think the defiant will be more like the original cell where it was a nice arc, nothing crazy but will dig in oil where it needs to. it wont have the wow factor like a nano or VG but will get the job done.

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bowlingnut18 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2012, 09:52:45 PM »

Quick update for myself, I just drilled a defiant tonight and wow is all I can say. My track has moved significantly from years past and I'm more towards a 4 4/3 over 1 up right now, so when mapping out to a 5x5x2 it put the pin above ring finger about a 1/2 inch or so, so we modified it a bit and decided to drill away from the pin rather than dill the pin out. I was afraid that setting this ball up pin over was going to put to too far down the lane, but with the recovery ability of this ball not being too jumpy off the dry, I was pleasantly surprised by it. Now it does not have the sweeping appeal of a true "oiler" in the sense that you will not see abrupt changes of direction, but the firm arc of this ball to "get it going" and hold entry angle is amazing.

I threw two games on a lane which had seen open bowling and plenty of carrydown, not alot of oil up front and this ball really glided through the heads and midlane without even sniffing at the possibility that it would turn up early. It was noticeable watching the ball work through the carry down portion, and from every angle I threw the ball, it held it's ground in the backend and found the pocket.

Not a "miracle ball" or "hook in a box" type ball in my eyes, it sat steady the whole way down the lane no matter how I threw it or how much I put on it, speed never really affected the ball the way I was throwing it, I average 16 mph and when I stepped it up to 17.5 it still held it's own, even throttling down to 15 the ball wasn't "antsy" to make a move, but it covered exactly what I thought it would in the end. I think this ball has some potential when I finally get it on to fresh quality amounts of oil, where it can store energy through the heads and have good grip in the back to really move.

tburky · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2012, 10:43:48 PM »

To compare it to another previous solid roto grip ball the cell, the defiant is longer and a lot more hook on the back. The shape is a strong arc. I never drilled a theory so I cannot compare it to that. The layout of defiant pin above fingers on center line with the cg on center line and mass bias 1-1/4" right of center line. I am not much on throwing solids. I wasn't impressed with the invasion or the original virtual gravity and I definitely had oil to throw it on. i am impressed with the defiant. I don't have too many games on it so time will tell. I have thrown the omen and it starts up a lot sooner than defiant and I really didn't care for that ball. I believe the omen is a pearl which surprised me in how much early it was than defiant.

Edited by tburky on 1/12/2012 at 11:51 PM

Bigmike · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2012, 10:26:07 AM »

Charlest I will give some input although I am slightly biased. I see the Defiant a lot like I seen the original Cell. I see the shape of the motion as a strong arc. The Cell was slightly more textured with 2000abr v 3000abr for the Defiant.

I have had the Cell, VG, Mutant Cell, Invasion, Theory & Nano, The Theory, Invasion, and Mutant were very early for me. I didn't see enough head oil to use them consistantly and they eventually got taken out of my bag. The VG and Nano had more back end and got regular use except on flatter conditions as they made me have to open my angles up too much. Comparing the Nano and Defiant, I see the Nano making the more crisp move on the back. I see the Defiant as a stronger rolly type ball in comparison. Both will have their merits, but the Defiant is going to see more action for me because I have carry issues with wider angles.

JMHO I see the Defiant having a place in a tournament players bag because the reaction is very predictable and should be great on the fresh. Now this is without drilling another to compliment. I may also knock mine down to 1000 to see how it looks on a tougher pattern where you need the ball to set up earlier on the fresh.

"Tell me Cup, how does a great ball striker like you shoot an 82? Well I lipped out this putt on 18......"

Mike Craig - Storm Products Pro-Shop staff -Columbus, OH

Author Topic: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball? (Read 3199 times)

charlest

Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?

grizfan

Re: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?

DeadWood Pro Shop

Re: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?

pro shop guy

Re: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?

charlest

Re: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?

bowlingnut18

Re: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?

cheech

Re: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?

bowlingnut18

Re: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?

tburky

Re: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?

Bigmike

Re: Is the Defiant an oiler or just a big hooking ball?