Author Topic: Handicap? (Read 4941 times)

sevenpin63 · « **on:** June 16, 2010, 11:22:08 AM »

Well here is the story.

My mixed league I am on recently raised the handicap from 80% of 200, to 90% of 220. This is my fun league I bowl with my wife. You see I have been on this league for 7 years now and the lowest we have finished is 4th place but have finished first 4 times. And this year I had a very good year, the funny thing is I had no honor scores but I finished with a 227 average, the reason they changed the handicap.

Now my wife could care less but the other couple on my team are all upset about the handicap saying it is not fair. Me I can see there point they are penalizing me for having a good year, but I also consider it a challenge to beat them again. But it is not fair for the rest of my team.

I mean some teams are going to have over 300 in handicap (4 person teams) if they finish like they did last year, this is per game. They want to try to get it back down to a more reasonable handicap.

Question how would you handle this. Leave it as is or try to do something about it.
--------------------
DON''''T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS

Edited on 6/16/2010 7:22 PM

Jesse James · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2010, 09:07:43 AM »

quote:
We still win the league just about every year. The better bowler will still prevail most of the time.

@Rock, gsmack and Brian:
This last statement totally undermines all your rationalizing for having a "fair" handicap. Come on Dudes...if you don't like the handicap, join a scratch league. It amazes me how good scratch bowlers constantly complain about handicaps not being fair! Just means you have to work harder and can't sit back and cruise and say..."Hey, look at me...ain't I agreat bowler?" and still win. Ya gotta earn it!

I'd just leave the handicap alone. After all, the OP says this is a fun league. So challenge yourselves to meet the level that the bar has been reset to.
--------------------
Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.

Some days you're the bug some days you're the windshield.

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2010, 09:14:26 AM »

Hey Jes .. I think Rock was being FAIR with his posting ..maybe you read it wrong .. or perhaps I'm misreading your comment ..
--------------------
J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

Stan · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2010, 09:31:56 AM »

Handicap leagues are just that, Handicap Leagues. As many already said, you are over the handicap base and getting PLUS pins. So you want to complain that the lower average bowlers are getting a few more pins. In a handicap league, you can add the average of anyone not at or over the base with their handicap and they still will not equal the base. If its not fair, its for the lower average bowlers NOT YOU. I would have raised the base to 230, then even you would be getting pins. That would be much fairer. If its a fun league, then have FUN, otherwise go find a scratch league to bowl in and stop complaining that you are TOO GOOD for the league.

rvmark · « **Reply #19 on:** June 17, 2010, 09:32:35 AM »

Jesse,

I agree with Joe, reread the post as he was talking about handicap being 100% of his average.

Mark

Jesse James · « **Reply #20 on:** June 17, 2010, 09:45:53 AM »

Ooops. My bad, Rock.

Thanks for pointing that out guys.
--------------------
Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.

Some days you're the bug some days you're the windshield.

storm making it rain · « **Reply #21 on:** June 17, 2010, 10:05:42 AM »

Handicap is such a touchy topic isnt it. im a scratch bowler and have been for a lot of years, but i see both sides to the story.

here''''s an example with a 90% of 220 scenario (and lets say that this league has individual match points)

bowler 1 - 180 avg 36 hdcp
bowler 2 - 225 avg 0 hdcp

bowler 2 shoots 675 series (exactly his average)
bowler 1 would have to shoot almost 30 pins over his average to win the point!!

how is that fair to the lower average bowler that his opponent had an "average" night, he bowled well over his average and he still loses?

ive been thinking about this over the years, and wouldnt it be all equal if it were 100% of 300? wouldnt that put everyone on an even level and then it would be whichever team had the best night over their average?

maybe im talking stupid but somehow it makes sense to me

Edited on 6/17/2010 10:07 AM

Edited on 6/17/2010 10:07 AM

Gazoo · « **Reply #22 on:** June 17, 2010, 10:08:14 AM »

Low average bowlers bowl under average far more often than do high average bowlers which makes the "not fair" agrument nonsense. The high average bowlers win a majority of the time, but only remember the 1 or 2 times they lose and not the 8 or 9 times they win. Handicap only gives an unfair advantage to those who misuse it.
--------------------
"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"

slimjuggalo2002 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 17, 2010, 10:22:27 AM »

quote:
Low average bowlers bowl under average far more often than do high average bowlers which makes the "not fair" agrument nonsense. The high average bowlers win a majority of the time, but only remember the 1 or 2 times they lose and not the 8 or 9 times they win. Handicap only gives an unfair advantage to those who misuse it.
--------------------
"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"

I am not sure if your arguments are true. Have you seen data that supports your statement? I have always thought that the handicap was set at 80% or 90% due to the fact that is much easier for a 175 average bowler to pick up another spare or two, or carry another brooklyn strike than it was for a 225 average bowler to throw a longer streak of strikes.

The 100% handicap calculation does make everything technically fair, but as a higher average bowler, I would never bowl in that league. It would seem to negate all of the practice I have to put into the sport and the money I spend to keep my equipment up to date.
--------------------
Go Buckeyes!!!

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 17, 2010, 10:28:00 AM »

Was this handicap raise before the season started and if so what are you complaining about, but if it was midseason change, houston we have a problem..

--------------------
2 Fingers 4 Life
I Am The 3 Fingers Nightmare

sevenpin63 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 17, 2010, 03:25:02 PM »

Some of you guys are taking this the wrong way.

I am not b!tching about the handicap, I never was. In fact when they voted it in I was just going to go with it, and see how next season turns out. I took it as a challenge.

The only reason I was asking is because my other teammates were complaining saying "this is not fair." I was just asking for your opinion to see what the feeling is on this handicap issue.

I will just try to get them to not make stink about this when are league starts up again this fall, and let the year play out and see were we stand.

Thanks for all your input
--------------------
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #26 on:** June 17, 2010, 04:52:19 PM »

Seven .. I thought you were VERY clear ..it was your team that was upset .. you were content that it was fair .. I agree with you it was better then before. I'm all for 100% handicap for the matching teams (in a league). Handicap tournaments are made for SAND BAGGERS!
--------------------
J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

shelley · « **Reply #27 on:** June 17, 2010, 10:23:26 PM »

I'm with Joe. I thought you were quite clear and level-headed about it, with the exception that perhaps you could have clarified from the start that this change was not mid-season (our summer season, for instance, is half over already).

it's nice and refreshing to see an elite bowler who doesn't pooh-pooh the handicap system entirely.

SH

charlest · « **Reply #28 on:** June 17, 2010, 10:33:33 PM »

quote:
Some of you guys are taking this the wrong way.

I am not b!tching about the handicap, I never was. In fact when they voted it in I was just going to go with it, and see how next season turns out. I took it as a challenge.

The only reason I was asking is because my other teammates were complaining saying "this is not fair." I was just asking for your opinion to see what the feeling is on this handicap issue.

I will just try to get them to not make stink about this when are league starts up again this fall, and let the year play out and see were we stand.

Thanks for all your input
--------------------
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS

Oh? Okay, sorry. Most of us thought you were also upset over the "unfairness" of this. Yes, please make them understand so in the future they will be more comfortable with "handicap" and understand its place.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Mighty Buffalo · « **Reply #29 on:** June 18, 2010, 08:23:52 AM »

Here is another option that your league could consider, my saturday night league uses team averages to figure out handicap. We get the total average of each team, find the difference and give the lower average team 90% of that difference. There are nights that we are facing 200+ pins before we start, but it is like that for a reason. This makes it so that the high average bowlers don't get as many "free pins" for hitting their average.

My Saturday night league started this a few years ago because of a sub that was there every week that averaged about 235, and whatever team he bowled with would dominate and win by a landslide each week.

Some were confused by it at first, but after the first couble of weeks people got used to it and realized it is a fairer system than the high average bowlers getting the free pins.
--------------------
Let in the DOGS - I've got a HAMBONE for them!

To all the haters, get over it!

Author Topic: Handicap? (Read 4941 times)

sevenpin63

Handicap?

Jesse James

Re: Handicap?

JOE FALCO

Re: Handicap?

Stan

Re: Handicap?

rvmark

Re: Handicap?

Jesse James

Re: Handicap?

storm making it rain

Re: Handicap?

Gazoo

Re: Handicap?

slimjuggalo2002

Re: Handicap?

Zanatos1914

Re: Handicap?

sevenpin63

Re: Handicap?

JOE FALCO

Re: Handicap?

shelley

Re: Handicap?

charlest

Re: Handicap?

Mighty Buffalo

Re: Handicap?