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Author Topic: Is there really that much of a difference between 15 lbs and 16 lbs?  (Read 41001 times)

Whysoserious

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I have been throwing 15 lbs for a while now and I have been doing a lot of weight training recently so I figured I would try a 16 lb ball.  Will I lose revs moving up?  The ball I bought is pretty strong (Nano Pearl drilled 4x4x2) and it is not as strong as I have suspected.  Is this due to the weight increase? 


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avabob

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Re: Is there really that much of a difference between 15 lbs and 16 lbs?
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2014, 01:05:53 PM »
I think the modern release that has evolved is physically easier on wrist than either the cup wristed delivery that predominated in the 80's, or even the old strokers release where we hit up on the ball at release.  The great timing and resultant pendulum arm swing of the strokers era did not allow most bowlers to develop the ball speed necessary to match up with the higher friction balls of the resin era.  Neither did the cup wristed plant and turn release that allowed some very good bowlers to slow hook the lane effectively during the urethane era. 

I think the most effective releases in todays game are very efficient because they generate revs without fighting gravity.  I do know that I generate more revs with a softer release today than I did 10 years ago when I hadn't yet learned how to rev the ball without hitting up on it.

Ball speed is another matter.  More ball speed is necessary with todays equipment, and the young guys wont be able to maintain the kind of speed when they get older that they have now. 

bergman

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Re: Is there really that much of a difference between 15 lbs and 16 lbs?
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2014, 09:20:46 PM »
Good question. I learned to bowl back in the old days (mid 1960s) and I am definitely a product of that era. I am a lower rev/high speed stroker who was never able to develop the modern release ( open shoulder, uncoiled release). Although today's balls are much more "powerful" than the old rubber/polyester balls of that era, I still get  better pinfall with the 16# balls than I do with 15# balls,  especially on tight conditions.  I bowl in the PBA regionals from time to time and when I look back, I have had more success with the 16#ers out there, because I get much less deflection with them.

On the question of ball speed (15# v 16#), I never noticed any difference between
the two. If your armswing is gravity-fed, there should be no difference in ball speed.

On the other hand, I agree that if you are
able to develop the modern release, then the lighter balls will be an advantage to you because what you lose in ball mass is made up for in terms of increased revs
and pocket entry angle. If you throw straight and hard as I do, then you will benefit
more from the additional mass (weight) than you will by dropping down in ball weight.

avabob

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Re: Is there really that much of a difference between 15 lbs and 16 lbs?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2014, 01:18:07 PM »
You are right about ball speed, and weight.  I disagree a bit on what the modern release really is.  The open shouldered cup wristed release came about in the early 80's, and is itself obsolete in the urethane era.  What does remain is a bit later timing with a power step to help increase ball speed.  If you watch the best pros today they are coming much more off the back of the ball to play straighter without losing revs.  A common misconception is that entry angle minimizes deflection.  It is really the release of rotational energy that minimizes deflection.  For example, a big looping slow hook can create 6 degree entry angle while rolling out. However it will deflect more than straighter release that achieves less entry angle, but is still releasing rotational energy. 

spencerwatts

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Re: Is there really that much of a difference between 15 lbs and 16 lbs?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2014, 02:09:45 PM »
Since we're on the topic of ball weight, I have bowling balls that range out of the box 16.0 to 16.3  pounds. Would a ball still be considered 16 pounds if the ball weight out of the box is 15.15? We're talking one ounce, but is there an accepted variance and still be considered at the higher weight?

Avabob, check out a clip that I embeded in a previous response in this string. I'm PBA 50 eligible. Physically, I'm still able to use 16 pound equipment with the same ball speed and rev rate as I did 20-25 years ago.
Ball speed avg. (18.25 mph)
Rev rate avg. (400-428 rpm)
Still refusing to accept AARP eligibility and membership cards

bergman

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Re: Is there really that much of a difference between 15 lbs and 16 lbs?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2014, 05:29:35 PM »
You are right regarding entry angle and the fact that most of today's top pros
are coming more up-the- back while retaining revs.  However, most of them
deploy an open shoulder at the top of the backswing (with the balance arm
pointed forward, towards the pins), in contrast to a traditional stroker, who
keeps his/her shoulders more closed- balance arm extended to their side.

Also, today's bowlers (most), get their hand under the ball--either via a cupped wrist or by deploying a bent elbow (or both), which they uncoil at the point of release, causing their wrist to break---like uncoiling a Frisbee, but in a vertical plane, instead.
The only way a traditional stroker (like myself) can effect such a release is to increase lateral spine tilt to allow the ball to be released from just inside the shoulder, provided that I also keep my hand under the ball, just before the release point. In this position, the ball is at its "heaviest", which should assist me in naturally
uncoiling the wrist. I tried this, but my game is 40 years a stroker-lol. How I envy
those that can effect it.

Also, you are 100% correct on the cupped wrist style of the 80's. The major difference between then and today, is that in the 80's, ball motion was more dependent on having very firm fingers at release, which a (fixed) cupped wrist
greatly aided. Fingers are still in play today , but the big rev generator now is the
uncoiling of the wrist at release, released with the assistance of much more
(lateral) spine tilt.   

spencerwatts

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Re: Is there really that much of a difference between 15 lbs and 16 lbs?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2014, 05:47:20 PM »
"Also, today's bowlers (most), get their hand under the ball--either via a cupped wrist or by deploying a bent elbow (or both), which they uncoil at the point of release, causing their wrist to break---like uncoiling a Frisbee, but in a vertical plane, instead.
The only way a traditional stroker (like myself) can effect such a release is to increase lateral spine tilt to allow the ball to be released from just inside the shoulder, provided that I also keep my hand under the ball, just before the release point. In this position, the ball is at its "heaviest", which should assist me in naturally
uncoiling the wrist. I tried this, but my game is 40 years a stroker-lol. How I envy
those that can effect it.

"Also, you are 100% correct on the cupped wrist style of the 80's. The major difference between then and today, is that in the 80's, ball motion was more dependent on having very firm fingers at release, which a (fixed) cupped wrist
greatly aided.

"Fingers are still in play today , but the big rev generator now is the uncoiling of the wrist at release, released with the assistance of much more (lateral) spine tilt."

Bergman, this is one older dog that ain't going to try and learn that trick. No way. I'll stick to what works for me.


« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 08:08:20 AM by spencerwatts »
Ball speed avg. (18.25 mph)
Rev rate avg. (400-428 rpm)
Still refusing to accept AARP eligibility and membership cards