Author Topic: Is this type league allowed??? (Read 5853 times)

trash heap · « **on:** August 30, 2011, 01:45:32 AM »

This pertains to the league I am setting up for this winter. Don't have the money to make a PBA Experience League, Center is NOT certified to be USBC Sport. So my decision was to create a league using slightly modified versions of the original PBA patterns (I think they have changed since they first came out).

Well, I am getting it together. Last night, got a little set back. The USBC Local Association Manager has notified to me that any league that changes oil patterns from week to week cannot be a regular sanction league. Basically once you have a league changing patterns week to week is automatically a SPORT LEAGUE. Since I am not following the complet Sport League rules (Getting Tapes every week, Center is Not Sport Certified, Not having Bowlers pay extra fee for Sport Shot) I cannot have this as a USBC sanction league.

He was really nice about it. I understand his point of view. His signature is going to be on this league too. He is doing the right thing in checking it out. I just couldn't find it in the rules when we were discussing it.

My only reason for this to be sanction is just in case someone shoots a honor score. It might mean a little something to them knowing they shot a 300 or 800 on a tough condition.

What happens to PBA Experience Leagues now? I don't think USBC recognizes the PBA patterns for their SPORT BOWLING. Can a PBA Exp League be a USBC Sanction League?

I just don't see the rules for changing oil patterns week to week. All I see is this in the rule book:

Chapter 7: Equipment Specifications and Certifications CAQ’s

Do lanes have to be dressed prior to every league?

No. Every bowling center is inspected annually for a compliant lane condition. USBC specifications dictate that when the lanes are dressed, a minimum of three units from edge board to edge board be used for the length of the pattern. As long as this is done when the lanes are initially dressed, they are compliant.

Based on this, as long as the patterns I am using for this league meet the requirements then I can use any pattern that is compliant.

trash heap · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2011, 10:21:57 AM »

I have no problem there. I already have that as an additional note along with the rules of the league. I mentioned it to him about the average adjustment.

milorafferty wrote on 8/30/2011 10:07 AM:
Of course, your local association CAN use the fact of changing patterns as a valid reason to adjust your averages(re-rate) for their local tournaments.

Andyman3333 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2011, 10:46:10 AM »

I don't believe he will find anything in the book that says you have to maintain the same pattern throughout the season on a regular league. USBC provides general guidelines for leagues, but you can essentially do whatever you want as long as you maintain the minimum 3 units of oil. But seriously, who checks that during the season anyways?

You do not have to sanction Sport to run multiple patterns. Many Sport leagues opt not to sanction due to the increased cost and effort that goes into it. The rewards for sanctioning as a Sport League include more work for you, more costs for you, and fewer high scores for your bowlers. The awards for Sport bowling are pretty pathetic too and honestly, in four yeas, I've only ever ordered 1, which was a 299 game.

The Association reserves the right to rerate bowlers from your league, but in reality, that's the way it should be if you are using Sport patterns and not sanctioning as such. That's just the honorable thing to do. Otherwise, tell the local association they have no say in what patterns you lay out on a week to week basis. I'm fairly familiar with this. They will not find the rule they are looking for.

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA

Arsenal: (In the bag) C-System Ulti-Max, C-System Alpha Max, C-System 3.5, Lethal Revolver, Loaded Revolver, Wicked Siege, Massive Damage, Damage, Slingshot, Avalanche Slide,

Edited by Andyman3333 on 8/30/2011 at 10:46 AM

Crash7189 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2011, 11:18:08 AM »

I bowl in 2 leagues that are USBC sanctioned. 1 uses Both Kegel sport & challenge patterns for 2/3 of the season. last 1/3 they use USBC National pattern they change the pattern about every 6 weeks. Other league uses U.S. open, Masters and National pattern. Neither has a sport sanction just a std sanction. Maybe it's because you are using PBA patterns and calling a pba experience league. Kegel has patterns that are close to the PBA patterns try that and see if you can get a Std sanction.

Cobalt Bomb · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2011, 11:26:03 AM »

Why sanction the league then? For a couple of cheap awards? If the USBC doesn't want your money, then don't bend over backwards to give it to them. Amazing! Do something to bring back a little integrity to the game and the USBC will not stand for it.

Track_Fanatic · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2011, 11:58:09 AM »

It's to inflate handicap and get an unfair advantage if they want to bowl in a handicap tournament. People have talk about this over and over.

milorafferty · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2011, 12:05:36 PM »

That's not always the case, not everyone is a cheater.

Track_Fanatic wrote on 8/30/2011 11:58 AM: It's to inflate handicap and get an unfair advantage if they want to bowl in a handicap tournament. People have talk about this over and over.

djones · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2011, 01:18:39 PM »

Andyman is 100% correct in his comments.

I wish more leagues would change up oil patterns on a regular basis. The idea behind changing patterns should be more for making one a better bowler; not for increasing handicaps.

Bill Thomas · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2011, 01:49:04 PM »

As far as I know, USBC has no rule re the type of league you propose. However, if its not sport sanctioned, it is wide open for bowlers to manage their average for an unfair advantage. There needs to be some kind of rule that forces leagues who use "sport" conditions, without sanctioning as such, to identify themselves so that the bowlers therein can be automatially rerated.

Track_Fanatic · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2011, 02:00:40 PM »

I would prefer to have all leagues be sport compliant. But the casual bowler and the thb wouldn't like it which then would bring membership down as well as league bowling. It would be the end of sanctioned leagues.

trash heap · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2011, 02:29:17 PM »

If this league is a go. Anyone bowling in it will be rerated as far as the local asscociation tournaments are concerned. It's when you go outside the area that becomes the problem. You hope bowlers would be honest in that scenario.

Please understand, in my case, I am not trying to hide. I would gladly make this a SPORT league if there wasn't all the additional costs and work for everyone. This league is set up for challenge. In my opion it should be sanctioned. Being in a sanction league is not just about someone having an establish average. There other good rules and regulations that help the league.

Bill Thomas wrote on 8/30/2011 1:49 PM:
There needs to be some kind of rule that forces leagues who use "sport" conditions, without sanctioning as such, to identify themselves so that the bowlers therein can be automatially rerated.

Andyman3333 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2011, 05:56:32 PM »

Sport Bowling should be the standard. You shouldn't have to pay extra to join. That's a huge flaw. The awards/benefits do not justify the cost to the bowler and the effort to run tapes every week, mail them, and maintain almost constant contact with USBC in regards to your lane conditions.

There are no doubt fewer SPORT SANCTIONED awards handed out each year percentage wise to awards handed out in regular non-sport sanctioned leagues. The cost of $15 to upgrade is not justified. Pay more to bowl bad is not a good marketing tool.

God forbid if you signed up for a Sport Bowling League, you got a DISCOUNT on your regular membership or even a refund. And maybe if $1 of that $15 upgrade fee went BACK TO THE LOCAL ASSOCIATION, LEAGUE or CENTER for running such a league, you might have more interest from people to promote the program. Instead, THE USBC takes every nickel back to Texas without a cent going back to the people who promote, run, operate or bowl in the leagues. Just saying...Where does all that money go.

I ran a Sport League (PBA Experience) for four years. I ordered one award for a 299 game. I sanctioned 280 bowlers over the course of the 4 years. I ran tapes and mailed them for 64 seperate weeks and did all the promotion and ground work to run the league. Didn't see the benefit of sanctioning anymore and got burnt out by all the extra effort required. So last year was my final year running it.

However, as a whole, bowling on tough conditions can not be credited enough for my own skill development. And it has made me a competitor on a local and National level that I never once previously believed I could be. I just think the whole marketing attempt is flawed. I think bowlers should be able to join these leagues without having to fork out any extra money. I think if they forked out extra money, it should be returned to the center, the association or the league operator for their efforts to promote the program as a whole.

And don't get me wrong, I'm frustrated with the system. The people I've dealt with at USBC have been fantastic and very helpful. I just don't believe in the way they push Sport Bowling on people.

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA

Arsenal: (In the bag) C-System Ulti-Max, C-System Alpha Max, C-System 3.5, Lethal Revolver, Loaded Revolver, Wicked Siege, Massive Damage, Damage, Slingshot, Avalanche Slide,

Stan · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2011, 08:51:58 PM »

If you league is not sport certified, then why are you rerating the bowlers that bowl in it ? I understand that most of them will probably be lower than if they bowled on THS, but legally (based on USBC rules), I do not think you can do that. Basically, its just a normal league average to them.

This is one reason why you should be Sport certified.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2011, 11:24:12 PM »

The center I bowl in on Mondays cannot put out the same shot consistently.

"1 of 1."

trash heap · « **Reply #14 on:** September 14, 2011, 07:14:24 AM »

Okay....still working on setting up the league. Have been talking and discussing things with people. New direction with oil patterns. Someone suggested the KEGEL patterns. So I finally made a decision on the oil patterns. For this league I am going with the Navigation Challenge Series. This is what I am looking for right now. A step up from the league patterns. Perfect!!!

Anyone at KEGEL reading this .... thank you.

If we find we need more of a challenge we can move to some of the SPORT series patterns.

Don't have to worry about rerating, its not going to be super tough. We are taking stepping stones here. Trying to generate interest.

Author Topic: Is this type league allowed??? (Read 5853 times)

trash heap

Is this type league allowed???

trash heap

Re: Is this type league allowed???

Andyman3333

Re: Is this type league allowed???

Crash7189

Re: Is this type league allowed???

Cobalt Bomb

Re: Is this type league allowed???

Track_Fanatic

Re: Is this type league allowed???

milorafferty

Re: Is this type league allowed???

djones

Re: Is this type league allowed???

Bill Thomas

Re: Is this type league allowed???

Track_Fanatic

Re: Is this type league allowed???

trash heap

Re: Is this type league allowed???

Andyman3333

Re: Is this type league allowed???

Stan

Re: Is this type league allowed???

kidlost2000

Re: Is this type league allowed???

trash heap

Re: Is this type league allowed???