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Author Topic: Is your local ABT branch getting as bad as it is here?  (Read 4064 times)

thegame

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Is your local ABT branch getting as bad as it is here?
« on: August 17, 2003, 03:34:09 AM »
I have been bowling ABT's here in the Citrus Belt division (southern California) for 3 years now.  I really enjoy them because it's a nice tournament club, and is an excellent way to get in bowling in a competitive environment.  Recently however, I have noticed a drop in the money being awarded, and the entries here, particularly in the Masters division.  I think ABT made a big mistake when they upped the entering average to 230, and maxed out the handicap number at 225.  Many "borderline" Masters went back down into the Classic division, and right now, here at least, the Masters is really hurting.  I thought Citrus Belt was getting bad, seeing only 6 or 7 people cashing at many tournaments, then I look in the local bowling paper and notice at the recent tournament in the Orange County division, only TWO cashed.  So, two people made the cut, they both bowled in the semis, just for seed (really just to see who would get to choose starting or finishing in their championship match), then they bowl one more match to see who wins, and who gets second, how ridiculous.  It would be funny, if it wasn't getting to be a real blow to our sport.  And on top of all this, I just found out the Citrus Belt division isn't sanctioned with ABC anymore.  I know for a fact, around here at least, ABT has lost a lot of bowlers, and there may be more on the way out soon, if this doesn't get turned around quickly.

 

komike

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Re: Is your local ABT branch getting as bad as it is here?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2003, 07:10:40 PM »
ABT here in the bay area sucks too...We will be lucky to get 2 Masters a week...most weeks we get none....The classic division is dropping too...only average maybe 180 entrees a week...next month they are upping the entry fee to $55 and making the prize $1200...ABT isnt sactioned by ABC anymore? Then why do they require you to be ABC sanctioned to go to the national tournament? ABT is the only weekly tournament here in the bay area and it is slowly going downhill...i think the national director (who happens to run the citrus belt) is an idiot and a lot of people in the bay area do not like him...he re-rates everyone from our branch who goes to the national tournament so a lot of bowlers dont go to Las Vegas to bowl it and have also stopped bowling the tournament all together...I think he needs to sell the tournament to someone else who would know how to run it right...ABT is national so it would be a bad thing for bowling...

laner7pin

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Re: Is your local ABT branch getting as bad as it is here?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2003, 08:14:28 PM »
ABT here in MN has gotten pretty bad as well. I stopped bowling them 2 years ago due to it getting too spendy. Upping the entry fees played a part, but also was the "bad" shots. If you didnt get in the first or second squad....forget it. They put a fresh shot down at 10am squad, did a head run after the 2nd or 3rd squad (still has carrydown) and depending on how many more squads went maybe another head run for the last block. I always got stuck in 3rd squad (1st 2 filled up quick for  obvious reasons), and never got a decent shot even on the left side. Last one I bowled in I went 268 first game (loads of breaks), then didnt sniff 180 the next 3 games, while missing the pocket twice, both washouts. The "4 ball limit" is kind of a joke as well, basically gives you 3 strike balls and a spare ball. If you bring the wring equip, your SOL. When I bowl other events around town, there are no ball limits, so I bring in 8-10 and if I need to switch, I can without having to fill out the serial #, have it checked in and weighed and all that nonsense. Would rather donate my $$$ to a new bowling ball or something else instead of going to a 170 avg bowler who gets 30 sticks a game and cant hit the same area twice, when I am consistently hitting the pocket, not carrying, making all sorts of adjustments, still cant carry and shooting 170's with no sticks. Not fun IMO (my feelings 2 years ago). Now I just stick to scratch tournamants and dont bother with ABT. Just my 2 cents...
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Rick Wunder

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Re: Is your local ABT branch getting as bad as it is here?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2003, 03:44:04 PM »
I have been bowling ABT in the Chicagoland North branch for a little over six years.  I started in the Masters division and when they changed the average limit from 190 to 200, I went down to Classic.  That is what I perceive to be "the beginning of the end" for the Masters division.  At that time, our branch would have more Masters entries than Classic entries in some events and all was well (IMO).  At the time the change was made, I didn't see it as a problem.  However, I saw what it did to entries as time went on and more 190-200 Masters bowlers moved to Classic.  That change also included raising the Masters average limit from 220 to 225, so that bowlers in that average range could join.  I think it is pretty obvious to most of us that there are many more bowlers in the 190-200 range than in the 220-225 range, so if you do the math, you would see the potential for a reduction in Masters entries.

Last year, when there was talk of moving the Classic average limit to 209, it looked to me like they just wanted to kill the Masters division altogether and go back to one division, which I think would have happened in nearly all of the branches.  It obviously has not been much better with the Classic average cap at 205 and the Masters cap at 230.  Again, the 200-205 range includes many more bowlers than the 225-230 range.

Having said all that, I also need to say that our branch is very well run (again, IMO) and we have averaged over 220 entries in the Classic and just over 100 in the Masters over the past two years.  Those averages are for the "regular" tournaments when the guarantee for first is $1,000 in both divisions.  Our special events (excluding doubles and sweepers) average almost 400 entries in the Classic and just over 210 entries in the Masters, with guarantees for first ranging from $1,500 to $10,000 in both divisions.

We are ABC and WIBC sanctioned, and I guess I thought that was a national rule.  We also don't have a four ball limit, which appears to be a rule established at the branches.

I enjoy ABT immensely, and I consider myself fortunate to be able to bowl in it.  It's a shame that it's not better in all the branches.  Maybe when the economy picks up, the entries will increase.
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SrKegler

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Re: Is your local ABT branch getting as bad as it is here?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2003, 03:54:34 PM »
Live and learn Rick.  I was also under the impression we could only use 4 balls in Chicago.  Might have gotten that idea though because there is only 4 spots to fill out the manu and serial number of the balls.

What do we do if we want to use more than 4??

Will probably be back up that way later in the year.
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Rick Wunder

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Re: Is your local ABT branch getting as bad as it is here?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2003, 10:25:48 AM »
Sr,
There has been an occasional event in which Ed has limited the bowlers to four balls, but I haven't seen it happen lately.  I think he used to do it at the Chicagoland Open.

During my tenure with ABT, we have gone from weighing all bowlers' bowling balls prior to the semifinals to weighing the finalists' bowling balls prior to the finals to just spot-checking.  We still weigh any ball that a finalist wants to add during the finals.  Bowlers still have all their equipment checked upon joining and the bowlers also have any new equipment checked as they acquire it.

If you want to add a fifth or sixth or more (!), they can be written (squeezed in) underneath or above the spaces for the other four balls on the recap sheet.

I'll be looking forward to seeing you at one of our events in the future.
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Platinum Bowler

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Re: Is your local ABT branch getting as bad as it is here?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2003, 04:18:41 PM »
Hey, I am a junior bowler, but my dad use to bowl the ABT here in the Citrus Belt division as well. He bowled them all the time, every weekend, for a good 5+ years. About 2 or 3 years ago he quit cause he learned that some of the directors were sponsoring some of the bowlers to enter. That way they were making most of their money back, cause they were sponsoring really good bowlers. Also he got tired of how some bowlers that you know were too good for ABT were coming in and would win a tourament or two, then be kicked out for averaging so high. About a month or a little more later they would be back in for the same thing to keep going on. Oh well, in my opinion the club is falling apart, due to too much politics, and just simply a bad running of the tournaments.


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joegunn

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Re: Is your local ABT branch getting as bad as it is here?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2003, 08:27:48 PM »
I've been an ABT member off and on in the Philadelphia Division for over 15 years.  I started in the Classic Division (189 and under) in the mid 80's.  "Graduated" in 1992 due to decent bowling and the 189 limit.  Re-joined as a Master in 1997 with a 198 got shuffled down to Classics again when they changed it to 200.  Bowled well and got bumped back into the Masters Division in 2000, went to the Spring Nationals in 2001 and 2002 and had a great time.

I really enjoyed bowling the tournaments, developed some good friendships and rivalries, and would go to 2 or 3 tournaments a month.  The division generally got over 40 entries a week and guaranteed $500 plus the optional progressive pot which was usually worth at least $500 if you won, so you felt like you were bowling for $1000 on any given weekend.  Since they raised the average to 205, as was stated earlier, the fringe players dropped back to the Classic Division and the entries have been dismal.  They no longer guarantee anything on top as it's based on entries, but the costs have remained the same.  Most tournaments average about 10 entries and the top prize has been in the $150 to $200 range.  I've only bowled one tournament this year and because my ABT average is 211, there's no shot of me moving back down.  The Nationals isn't even worth the trip with the unguaranteed $10,000 on top because I'd have to finish in the top eight just to break even.

One of the main problems I see is the subjective handicap system, and I won't even get into the sandbagging aspect.  I don't know if this a local problem, but there is a tendency to see a lot of the same cashers, and many are still getting bonus pins on a regular basis.  It's a shame, because I really do miss the action.  I don't see the Masters Division surviving much longer in this area unless it's a national requirement to have one.