Author Topic: Jeff Carter Rumors (Read 12062 times)

Coolerman · « **on:** October 16, 2009, 04:37:47 AM »

Jeff I'm hearing rumors regarding your bowling career.The rumors are not good.I will not go
any further because I don't know if they are true,but if it is something that you can tell us please
set me straight.

astrodanco · « **Reply #31 on:** October 17, 2009, 08:51:24 AM »

quote:
Perceived "credibility" has almost nothing to do with it. It's about money.

Your analysis is right on the money.

solid9proshop · « **Reply #32 on:** October 17, 2009, 02:25:25 PM »

Jeff is being inducted into the Greater Springfield Hall of Fame.
--------------------
Greatness starts at the Pro Shop, there are no bad balls just bad ball drillers!!!

www.solid9proshop.com
www.stormbowling.com
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VIP Storm Pro Shop

Russell · « **Reply #33 on:** October 17, 2009, 08:14:24 PM »

Credibility and viewability have everything to do with it. If the sport has no credibility as an actual sport that takes real skill, noone will watch, and no money will flow. This is the problem in many other sports that have very little money in them.

Bowling was huge until the mid 80s when scoring started getting incredibly out of control. Until every house in American doesn't have a 230+ average superstar the game will continue to have no money coming into it.
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Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

JessN16 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 18, 2009, 03:18:20 AM »

quote:
Credibility and viewability have everything to do with it. If the sport has no credibility as an actual sport that takes real skill, noone will watch, and no money will flow. This is the problem in many other sports that have very little money in them.

Bowling was huge until the mid 80s when scoring started getting incredibly out of control. Until every house in American doesn't have a 230+ average superstar the game will continue to have no money coming into it.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

I'm sorry, but this is just not correct on any level. Bowling was huge until the mid-80s because that's when television expanded from four major networks to a full slate of cable options. Bowling was pulling a 20-share prior to that because there simply weren't any other choices.

And when bowling was "big," where were the big-dollar advertisers? Still not there.

I'll make you a bet that I promise you I'll never lose. You find me one ad buyer who mentions "credibility" as a reason for not buying into bowling and you can have a Guinness on me. Ad buyers care about demographics, disposable cash, affiliated image and nothing else. They don't give a happy damn whether they're buying bowling or squirrel wrestling. As long as it makes money, hits their target audience and doesn't end up associating their product with other sponsors they consider to be threatening to their image (a PBA official told me he was glad when Odor Eaters stepped away because some sponsors wouldn't come onboard and run the risk of being associated with them), they're going to buy.

The money in golf didn't accelerate because of the quality of the game. It accelerated when ad buyers finally put it together that it was a game for rich people watched by other rich people. Bowling has never been that, won't ever be that and thus is not analogous to golf in terms of its ads. "Credibility" is a buzzword among some high-level bowlers and no one else.

Jess

Atochabsh · « **Reply #35 on:** October 18, 2009, 04:22:57 AM »

quote:
The money in golf didn't accelerate because of the quality of the game. It accelerated when ad buyers finally put it together that it was a game for rich people watched by other rich people.

And........they got a phenom named Tiger

Russell · « **Reply #36 on:** October 18, 2009, 08:55:58 AM »

quote:
quote:
Credibility and viewability have everything to do with it. If the sport has no credibility as an actual sport that takes real skill, noone will watch, and no money will flow. This is the problem in many other sports that have very little money in them.

Bowling was huge until the mid 80s when scoring started getting incredibly out of control. Until every house in American doesn't have a 230+ average superstar the game will continue to have no money coming into it.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

I'm sorry, but this is just not correct on any level. Bowling was huge until the mid-80s because that's when television expanded from four major networks to a full slate of cable options. Bowling was pulling a 20-share prior to that because there simply weren't any other choices.

And when bowling was "big," where were the big-dollar advertisers? Still not there.

I'll make you a bet that I promise you I'll never lose. You find me one ad buyer who mentions "credibility" as a reason for not buying into bowling and you can have a Guinness on me. Ad buyers care about demographics, disposable cash, affiliated image and nothing else. They don't give a happy damn whether they're buying bowling or squirrel wrestling. As long as it makes money, hits their target audience and doesn't end up associating their product with other sponsors they consider to be threatening to their image (a PBA official told me he was glad when Odor Eaters stepped away because some sponsors wouldn't come onboard and run the risk of being associated with them), they're going to buy.

The money in golf didn't accelerate because of the quality of the game. It accelerated when ad buyers finally put it together that it was a game for rich people watched by other rich people. Bowling has never been that, won't ever be that and thus is not analogous to golf in terms of its ads. "Credibility" is a buzzword among some high-level bowlers and no one else.

Jess

Jess I think we just see things from different sides here, and I completely understand your point with golf. However what about football, baseball, and basketball? They are sports that are played by the masses, and we understand that those at the highest level are athletes that have skill well beyond what we can do.

People don't watch baseball simply for the love of the game, if that were the case middle school baseball fields would be standing room only. People want to watch the elite do things that we mortals cannot. Bowling does not have that appeal because we don't see the difference between the house shot and the tour skews the line for the average bowler.

I know here in Atlanta there are many occasions where I am asked why I don't go on tour, just like TWOHAND834, and many other bowlers that can strike a lot. I tried bowling regionals, and realized that I wasn't good enough to cut it out there, but it doesn't stop others from seeing me average 230 and say "wow you can be on tour".

Until more people understand the difference between the house shot and the tour it won't get addtl viewers, because those at the elite level aren't seen as "special".

Hardcore bowlers like us understand this difference, so we tune in to see the elite make those tough patterns look easy.
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Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

los2003 · « **Reply #37 on:** October 18, 2009, 09:08:40 AM »

all very good points

quote:
quote:
Yet the PGA Tour has between 2-40 million dollars per scheduled event??

http://frankosport.us/golf/Purse/index.html

How can they get that kind of sponsorship yet bowling can't? Golf is more boring then bowling. It is more difficult but bowling on the pattern's on tour aren't as easy either. Make's no sense to me. Same for the World Series of Poker, just saw a commercial for a new tournament soon with a purse of 8.4 mill??
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Mike Zadler
"When in doubt, Pull out" - Rob Stone
Below, my stats from previous seasons:
http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=552&suffix=12886

This is a discussion for another thread....but credibility is the main problem. Why would you pay top dollar to sponsor a sport where the people on TV are scoring lower than some guy on a Wednesday classic league?

You can't go to a local course on Saturday morning and see guys shaping it like Tiger...or hitting it as long and straight as JB Holmes....

but there is no shortage of 230 average bowlers revving it up and throwing it right.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

tburky · « **Reply #38 on:** October 18, 2009, 10:15:31 AM »

I don''t buy into the credibility statement as the reason bowling cannot get sponsorship money. While most of us bowlers view bowling as a sport, potential sponsors and others view bowling as a recreational activity. It has been that way for years and more than likely always will be that way. It is sad to make that statement... but it is what it is.

Edited on 10/18/2009 10:16 AM

JessN16 · « **Reply #39 on:** October 18, 2009, 09:58:36 PM »

quote:

Jess I think we just see things from different sides here, and I completely understand your point with golf. However what about football, baseball, and basketball? They are sports that are played by the masses, and we understand that those at the highest level are athletes that have skill well beyond what we can do.

People don't watch baseball simply for the love of the game, if that were the case middle school baseball fields would be standing room only. People want to watch the elite do things that we mortals cannot. Bowling does not have that appeal because we don't see the difference between the house shot and the tour skews the line for the average bowler.

I know here in Atlanta there are many occasions where I am asked why I don't go on tour, just like TWOHAND834, and many other bowlers that can strike a lot. I tried bowling regionals, and realized that I wasn't good enough to cut it out there, but it doesn't stop others from seeing me average 230 and say "wow you can be on tour".

Until more people understand the difference between the house shot and the tour it won't get addtl viewers, because those at the elite level aren't seen as "special".

Hardcore bowlers like us understand this difference, so we tune in to see the elite make those tough patterns look easy.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

I highlighted one particular statement in your post because I agree with this, but the fact is we already have the means to do it -- we just don't.

I don't think anyone who has ever made a serious attempt at bowling has an illusion about its relative difficulty. When I'm practicing, if I'm nearby open bowlers, I do occasionally get asked questions from them about how I'm scoring. They know something's different, and given that only about a tenth of league bowlers post high averages, that means there are a lot more guys in the 160-190 range who don't believe they're a step away from the tour.

Bowling has failed to educate their bowlers as to the difference between league shots and sport shots. When has it ever been explained to you in your leagues? Except for the times I have bowled PBAX, the oil patterns are never mentioned. Not once have I ever been given a handout or other educational materials.

Golf doesn't have to do this, because it's clear to any golfer who plays what the difference is -- they can turn around on the white tee box, look behind them 20-50 yards and see the black tees. No one has to tell them a thing at that point, because their brain can figure it out on its own.

As for football/baseball/basketball/etc., if you grew up learning a sport as a kid, you'll watch it as an adult. I'd venture that Canadians are much more interested in youth- or club-level hockey than someone from Alabama. If we had larger youth bowling programs, we'd probably have larger overall bowling audiences. Bowling may be the largest participatory sport, but not from an organized sense.

All of that is separate from the ad-buy issue, though. That breaks down strictly on a disposable income level and the other issues I mentioned before. As for *why* it is what it is, maybe if we had more kids involved in organized bowling at an earlier age, we'd have a chance to get more kids from affluent families just based on the law of large numbers, and thus that would turn into more money being around the sport, thus more advertisers. But the overtly blue-collar lineage of the sport itself doesn't lend itself to the same kind of country club fans you see in golf (and thus, the advertisers interested in attracting said fans).

Jess

Atochabsh · « **Reply #40 on:** October 19, 2009, 12:33:06 AM »

quote:
Bowling has failed to educate their bowlers as to the difference between league shots and sport shots. When has it ever been explained to you in your leagues? Except for the times I have bowled PBAX, the oil patterns are never mentioned. Not once have I ever been given a handout or other educational materials.

The problem is that centers compete for bowlers. And if one center advertises PBA Exp league but doesn't provide it, then curious bowlers have to go elsewhere. That's cutting off their nose to spite their face. A center is not going to advertise a PBA Exp league in another center.

Most associations do not have the man power to go from house to house plugging a specific league in one center. Nor would they as it then smells like favorship, which also will not be tolerated amongst the centers. Again it is seen by the center as pulling bowlers from their center. And to be honest, the last thing the association has to worry about is plugging PBA or Sport leagues. They are overwhelmed with work as it is. BVL, Bowl for the Cure, mandatory Open, Ladies and Youth tournaments, new youth online processing. Its a nightmare and the last thing we can do is go around plugging a specific league or idea.

So its really up to USBC to do the plugging. And they did away with the field reps so they cannot go from center to center explaining what USBC is trying to do with such a program. Now just recently we are supposed to get the field reps back. Hopefully the new field reps can start explaining these types of oil pattern differences and maybe gaining more interest in PBA Exp leagues. But they would also have to provide the thousands of dollars of equipment it takes to run a PBA League.

Erin

StormFreak5552 · « **Reply #41 on:** October 19, 2009, 01:15:36 AM »

quote:
And....... They have a phenom named Tiger

Well we've got a rookie phenom named Rhino. Close?

Atochabsh · « **Reply #42 on:** October 19, 2009, 01:28:09 AM »

quote:
Well we've got a rookie phenom named Rhino. Close?

NO

Not when USBC is so obviously plugging the Australian Belmonte and his unconventional technique.

You can call it bad timing or ....I don't know what. But Rhino and his skill is getting the shaft by USBC and their favoritism for a showy unconventional (non US bred) bowler. Belmonte has been the USBC poster child now for a couple years. And Rhino's obvious achievements (and time already paid in the US bowling world) take second place to the ability to gain attraction from the unconventional Belmonte.

USBC seems to me, to be trying to make Belmonte into a "Tiger Woods" but he does not have the skill in his game that Tiger has in his.

Erin

JessN16 · « **Reply #43 on:** October 19, 2009, 03:21:55 AM »

quote:
quote:
Bowling has failed to educate their bowlers as to the difference between league shots and sport shots. When has it ever been explained to you in your leagues? Except for the times I have bowled PBAX, the oil patterns are never mentioned. Not once have I ever been given a handout or other educational materials.

The problem is that centers compete for bowlers. And if one center advertises PBA Exp league but doesn't provide it, then curious bowlers have to go elsewhere. That's cutting off their nose to spite their face. A center is not going to advertise a PBA Exp league in another center.

Most associations do not have the man power to go from house to house plugging a specific league in one center. Nor would they as it then smells like favorship, which also will not be tolerated amongst the centers. Again it is seen by the center as pulling bowlers from their center. And to be honest, the last thing the association has to worry about is plugging PBA or Sport leagues. They are overwhelmed with work as it is. BVL, Bowl for the Cure, mandatory Open, Ladies and Youth tournaments, new youth online processing. Its a nightmare and the last thing we can do is go around plugging a specific league or idea.

So its really up to USBC to do the plugging. And they did away with the field reps so they cannot go from center to center explaining what USBC is trying to do with such a program. Now just recently we are supposed to get the field reps back. Hopefully the new field reps can start explaining these types of oil pattern differences and maybe gaining more interest in PBA Exp leagues. But they would also have to provide the thousands of dollars of equipment it takes to run a PBA League.

Erin

I'm not just talking about an education program on PBAX -- no one has even explained THS. And no, some people don't know what it is or how to play it.

To carry on with the golf analogy, it's like playing golf and no one has explained to you the benefit of reading greens.

I'm not even going to get into how poorly the PBA markets itself and its telecasts to league bowlers.

Bowling is one of the worst self-promoting sports going right now, and then we wonder why people aren't aware of its various features and levels.

Jess

tc300 · « **Reply #44 on:** October 19, 2009, 06:59:55 AM »

quote:
quote:
The money in golf didn't accelerate because of the quality of the game. It accelerated when ad buyers finally put it together that it was a game for rich people watched by other rich people.

And........they got a phenom named Tiger

and hes black!! who or where is bowlings black phenom?!?!?!? billy oatman???
L M F A O

tc300 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 19, 2009, 07:11:45 AM »

quote:
quote:
Well we've got a rookie phenom named Rhino. Close?

NO

Not when USBC is so obviously plugging the Australian Belmonte and his unconventional technique.

You can call it bad timing or ....I don't know what. But Rhino and his skill is getting the shaft by USBC and their favoritism for a showy unconventional (non US bred) bowler. Belmonte has been the USBC poster child now for a couple years. And Rhino's obvious achievements (and time already paid in the US bowling world) take second place to the ability to gain attraction from the unconventional Belmonte.

USBC seems to me, to be trying to make Belmonte into a "Tiger Woods" but he does not have the skill in his game that Tiger has in his.

Erin

bowling/pba needs a belmonte, osku, cassidy shaub, and the other 2handed bowlers or as u would say "unconventional" style...FYI the usbc is a F'n joke anyway! they have belmo on there site cause ppl want to see his style of bowling.. its different and unique. and not sure where ur get belmos been the "poster boy" for usbc for years.... tiger is unique cause hes prolly the only black guy in/on the pga tour! haha he wins and dominates most/all tournys

Author Topic: Jeff Carter Rumors (Read 12062 times)

Coolerman

Jeff Carter Rumors

astrodanco

Re: Jeff Carter Rumors

solid9proshop

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Russell

Re: Jeff Carter Rumors

JessN16

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Atochabsh

Re: Jeff Carter Rumors

Russell

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los2003

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tburky

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JessN16

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Atochabsh

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StormFreak5552

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Atochabsh

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JessN16

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tc300

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tc300

Re: Jeff Carter Rumors