Hey guys last night I had two ballsdrilled. When I got home I noticed one wasn't drilled right. I asked for a stacked drill pin over the ring and it got drilled pin over ring with cg in the palm. A label leverage you might say. I am furious but what if anything can I do? I know he'd fix it for free but I am not gonna have a brand new ball that's never been thrown plugged.

I like that video, but remember, the whole thing that they're talking about only applies to balls with a intermediate diff of over .008.

Also, Russell, you are totally correct. There is a train of thought that says drill a ball with a strong (max flare) pin to pap to be able to play straighter. That doesn't sound right to the untrained mind, because you think stronger = more hook. I will use a Clutch with a 4 inch pin to pap, with the MB (.008) under my thumb to create a straighter look on a pattern because of it's slow response to friction, but it's still flaring enough to handle a oily THS. Slower response off the friction means I can pitch it into the adult bumpers without fearing for my life, and the higher amount of flare means that I don't have to worry when the pattern starts to carry down.

So, in real world dual angle terminology, my Clutch is 85x4x65. Unless there is a massive amount of friction right of 10, I would never dream of moving left of 20 with it. Would either 5-7-10 with it if I got it in a little bit, or go through the face if I got it right early.

Now, on a condition like that, take my Clutch Pearl. Drilled 60x4.5x30, it has a much more defined move than the solid, and I would be more comfortable moving way left with it because of it's much quicker response to friction.

From both of the last two posts by Impending or Russell.  Always an orientation of cg out or MB out towards the positive side for inside lines.

I almost never see drill angles on angles(in dual angle terminology) of 75 or 80 (cg ending up almost on grip center)  anymore when playing inside angles....hmmmmm??

Yet CG no matter....huh?  Drilling orientation on symmetrics yet no one ever uses it anymore except for one situation  hmmmm?  You've almost described it Russell above in describing the Cheetah Mika was on, or lane managed to his 300.

Regards,

Luckylefty

I actually have Mika's Pap somewhere and I am pretty sure it is around 5. or 5 plus.

I know the exact source just have to find it.

Note the trajectory here in Mika's 300 game on Cheetah, the cg on the grip center.

http://www.topendsports.com/videos/54/sports/tenpin/300-bowling-game-by-mika-koivuniemi/

Refer back to KidLost chart on where ball finishes in the pocket, describe the midlane of the ball in your own mind.  Prominent midlane?  Yes no?

Regards,

Luckylefty

Let's switch the subject...we are getting too close....

Regards,

Luckylefty

We were/are getting uncomfortably close, I fear....

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS to have a ball drilled with the pin over the bridge and mass bias to the LEFT(correction I was thinking LEFT handed) of the thumb, yes that would labor around the corner.  TO drill a symmetric with pin up and over ring finger at 5 and cg on grip center how deep would you be able to get?  Yes it would labor around the corner?  WHY, cg no matter?

Quote from: LuckyLefty on November 27, 2012, 11:45:16 AM

We were/are getting uncomfortably close, I fear....

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS to have a ball drilled with the pin over the bridge and mass bias to the right of the thumb, yes that would labor around the corner.  TO drill a symmetric with pin up and over ring finger at 5 and cg on grip center how deep would you be able to get?  Yes it would labor around the corner?  WHY, cg no matter?

The reason CG no madda is 2 fold:

- The CG is not a dynamic point on the ball..it merely is a heavy spot created by a fraction of an inch of offset inside of the ball.

- The Mass Bias on a symmetrical ball becomes the thumbhole when it is drilled....so the mass bias placement doesn't matter.  When you drill an asymmetrical ball 4" by 6" it tends to labor around the corner....and for most bowlers putting the mass bias in the thumb with a strong pin placement is not a very effective layout.

Again this all depends on pin placement....I'm not saying that not having a hole makes the ball lazy...merely that a strong pin and no hole can be lazy because the MB is so far away.

+1 with Russell. Pin and weighthole placement (drilling wise) will be the most important aspect of ball reaction. The CG can be spun around the ball 360 and it wouldnt make a difference. CG is only important to manipulating flare with a weighthole.

Lets try this for cg, weight hole location, and dual angle effects.

Bowlers PAP will be 5.5" straight across as in previous graphs used.

Lets take two layouts using the dual angle method and see how it shifts after drilling.

One will be 50x5.5x30(cg kicked out 2") the other 75x5.5x30.(cg in)

Very obvious at first is the difference in side weight for each ball. The first ball we see has exactly 1oz positive side weight, and the second ball has .24oz positive side weight.

Now at each ball you will see a red line coming from the thumb hole area. That marks the bowling balls PSA after drilling. On ball one(2" pos) we see the PSA is on the edge of the right edge of the thumb hole. On ball two we see that shifting the CG towards the center grip line almost 2" shifts the PSA after drilling is towards the middle of the thumb hole. Maybe 1/2" difference at most.

If you measure the dual angle after drilling you see that the PSA for both is going to be in the thumb and the actual dual angle numbers/drill angle would be in the ball park of 70 x 5.5" x 30 to 75 x 5.5" x 30. 

Shifting the CG 2" positive or back to center grip line has a very minimal effect. It is only shifting the density of the core very slightly, that after drilling CAN have an effect on the end numbers. (we have seen in previous graphs earlier, there is a 1/2" in reaction difference down lane in the last 6-8" this can have) So we can argue if you can see a 1/2" difference in bowling all day, but it does exist.

Now the point about the weight hole and why having the CG kicked out can matter. Lets add a  1" x 3.5" weight hole on the bowlers VAL and down 2.5"s and see how that effects the PSA. Clearly it shifts it over from the thumb past the CG towards the bowlers VAL and PAP changing the end drill angle by a significant amount. Much closer to 45 x 5.5 x 30. Moving the PSA approx 2"

Yes it changes the pin to PAP distance as well as the VAL angle in all drillings no matter what but since at this time were focusing on the drilling angle and not the Val angle or end result of the low Rg axis lets just go with it.

Enjoy the pics.