Author Topic: just a bit upset.. (Read 26059 times)

stormdamage · « **on:** November 22, 2012, 11:36:36 AM »

Hey guys last night I had two ballsdrilled. When I got home I noticed one wasn't drilled right. I asked for a stacked drill pin over the ring and it got drilled pin over ring with cg in the palm. A label leverage you might say. I am furious but what if anything can I do? I know he'd fix it for free but I am not gonna have a brand new ball that's never been thrown plugged.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #61 on:** November 25, 2012, 04:22:31 PM »

If you honestly think it is less jumpy on the backend according to the plots from the blueprint software on a symmetric ball your correct. If you zoom in and look at the 52' to the headpin the 3 lines separate from each other by less then the width of the line. The positive side weight ball is almost half the lines width stronger then the cg in the palm, and the cg in the palm is half the lines width stronger then the cg under the middle finger.

The exact numbers are for the graph above

.............................................cg kicked out...............cg in palm

Pocket entry angle degree............3.16..............................3.03
Pocket position board number........15.90............................15.42

So this will give you an idea of about half a board difference at the pocket.

scotts33 · « **Reply #62 on:** November 25, 2012, 04:34:42 PM »

ccrider--The ones that are saying it doesn't make a difference which I agree with by the way....Russell, Kidlost, Justrico are all saying that is not with the x hole on the gradient line just a CG shift. The x hole on the gradient line does MAKE a difference otherwise without the x hole not it does not make a difference very infinitesimally...we are talking two different issues here and it isn't being made known. Clear?

If the OP wanted the ball laid out with a x hole or to add an x hole at some point in the future to change ball motion then yes he would have a gripe.

Two issues here and not being discussed with same factors known. Most are staying with the original premise which is fine others like myself who added to it take the whole issue to task.

Quote

So on a symmetric, using the dual angle method, the pin to PAP,VAL and weight hole placement control ball movement? (along with surface)

That certainly does not seem to be consistent with what Mo Pinel says.

stormdamage · « **Reply #63 on:** November 25, 2012, 06:30:35 PM »

OK guys last comment on the issue. "It doesn't matter". I get it. I believe you. I know there are plenty of ppl with far more knowledge than I have on this issue which is why I posted the topic in the first place. But perhaps if I had the resources available to me I wouldn't need to ask such questions. I have a passion for Bowling and am simply trying to gain knowledge with each passing day. I would love to learn all the ins and outs of ball physics and drilling but like I said the resources aren't available. If I throw the ball and don't like the reaction then I guess that would be the time to worry as a few of you already stated. The real underlying factor in my reaction to the misdrilling is that I'm a bit neurotic nd a bit ocd. Thanks for all the posts on the topic. I am moving on. I will throw the ball and let the pins fall where they may. Thx again guys.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #64 on:** November 25, 2012, 06:45:33 PM »

I've read every post by the OP and he never mentions wanting to add an x-hole anywhere. You can easily increase or decrease the balls core dynamics to effect the shape of the ball by adding a x-hole.

As far as trying to figure out where your other ball will fit inline with this and others....who knows. If you don't like the reaction of your new ball after 10 games my suggestion is to adjust the surface. As stated and with what I've tried showing with the graphs the difference in the two cg locations is a half board difference in the last few feet of the lane. You can easily over come that with surface adjustments as well to be stronger or weaker.

If you just flat out hate the ball it isn't the cg, it is going to be surface and the ball in general not matching up. Hopefully the info provided from others does help. Hopefully none of it maters and the ball rolls great anyways.

As far as being OCD goes and wanting what you asked for vs what you got that makes sense. Hopefully you can put that behind you when you go to throw the ball and look at it with a clear mind. Good luck

scotts33 · « **Reply #65 on:** November 25, 2012, 06:49:46 PM »

Correct KL! I brought that up and this is where the OP might want to get more information and find a driller that can do this for him. There are more issues than what was originally posted.

Your input shows without an x hole there is little difference well done.

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I've read every post by the OP and he never mentions wanting to add an x-hole anywhere. You can easily increase or decrease the balls core dynamics to effect the shape of the ball by adding a x-hole.

Russell · « **Reply #66 on:** November 25, 2012, 08:30:17 PM »

Good idea stormdamage...I can assure you the best in the world are not where they are because they know core dynamics, physics, and how to match up surfaces to lane conditions.

As stated above, I have a multi PBA titleholder helping in my shop and he knows next to nothing about cores or anything other than repeating shots...he's just pretty good at the latter.

ccrider · « **Reply #67 on:** November 25, 2012, 10:40:45 PM »

Quote from: scotts33 on November 25, 2012, 04:34:42 PM

ccrider--The ones that are saying it doesn't make a difference which I agree with by the way....Russell, Kidlost, Justrico are all saying that is not with the x hole on the gradient line just a CG shift. The x hole on the gradient line does MAKE a difference otherwise without the x hole not it does not make a difference very infinitesimally...we are talking two different issues here and it isn't being made known. Clear?

Yes. Thanks for the clarification.

JohnP · « **Reply #68 on:** November 26, 2012, 10:53:01 AM »

Quote

I have a passion for Bowling and am simply trying to gain knowledge with each passing day. I would love to learn all the ins and outs of ball physics and drilling but like I said the resources aren't available.

If you really are willing to invest some time in learning more, the wiki at bowlingchat.net is a great place to start. The link to the index page is below. -- JohnP

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #69 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:26:50 PM »

There was a pretty good bowler named Randy Pederson who I ran into around 2000 or 2001.

As he said while in the pro shop having some stuff prepped.

"Label leverage drilling? Whatever happened to that?"

So if you think about it, if it makes no difference how come it is almost never used on the pro tour where midlane is king? Food for thought?

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS I have seen a ball that used it in the last 10 years, I believe it was the Pin under tornado solid? that Mika used to shoot a 300 with on ?Cheetah? On TV? Hmm? Why? Hmm?

Impending Doom · « **Reply #70 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:41:28 PM »

Because "label leverage" usually provides too much flare nowadays. Unless you're dealing with a lower diff ball, it's too much. That's why you hardly see anyone (Other than Duke and WRWJR) going less than 4.5 inches from pap.

Russell · « **Reply #71 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:47:50 PM »

Because it's not 2001?......

I mean by that logic let's all bust out our bleeders and make run at the tour...screw knowledge

JustRico · « **Reply #72 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:48:24 PM »

Mika used a low flare stinger when he shot 300 on tv and yes you are correct the cores of today's are too strong to be using leverage

Impending Doom · « **Reply #73 on:** November 26, 2012, 01:28:27 PM »

By the way, stormdamage... I don't know how to say this without sounding mean, so please don't take it that way...

If all it takes to throw you into a mental downward spiral is your "Stacked" drilling not being "Stacked", and by that, I mean by a half inch, maybe your next ball purchase should be put off, and maybe work with someone on the mental side of your game.

I know, I know. "I didn't get EXACTLY what I asked for, so I am going to sell it." kind of makes you sound like a whiny brat. Who knows, you may shoot the lights out with it. CG placement on a symmetrical is maybe 1-2% of ball reaction. Extra hole placement is a larger part, and as always, the biggest part is surface.

That's my thoughts on it. Flame away if you feel the need.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #74 on:** November 26, 2012, 01:48:16 PM »

Even label skip the leverage, just hardly ever seen on tour with the type of drilling Stormdamage is talking about. CG back towards grip?

Why? Why not? It should roll the same right?

(What do I expect in reply). A bunch of piling on). Think, have you seen these? Except at your house? Playing your house shot?

Note in his reply JustRico never discussed the drilling? Why?

Why did someone want his cg right on or near his grip center to play cheetah (IF it doesn't make any difference)?

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS I await the piling on....

Impending Doom · « **Reply #75 on:** November 26, 2012, 01:58:57 PM »

So there was no need for an extra hole? *shrug*

Author Topic: just a bit upset.. (Read 26059 times)

stormdamage

just a bit upset..

kidlost2000

Re: just a bit upset..

scotts33

Re: just a bit upset..

stormdamage

Re: just a bit upset..

kidlost2000

Re: just a bit upset..

scotts33

Re: just a bit upset..

Russell

Re: just a bit upset..

ccrider

Re: just a bit upset..

JohnP

Re: just a bit upset..

LuckyLefty

Re: just a bit upset..

Impending Doom

Re: just a bit upset..

Russell

Re: just a bit upset..

JustRico

Re: just a bit upset..

Impending Doom

Re: just a bit upset..

LuckyLefty

Re: just a bit upset..

Impending Doom

Re: just a bit upset..