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Author Topic: just a bit upset..  (Read 26045 times)

stormdamage

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just a bit upset..
« on: November 22, 2012, 11:36:36 AM »
Hey guys last night I had two ballsdrilled. When I got home I noticed one wasn't drilled right. I asked for a stacked drill pin over the ring and it got drilled pin over ring with cg in the palm. A label leverage you might say. I am furious but what if anything can I do? I know he'd fix it for free but I am not gonna have a brand new ball that's never been thrown plugged.
Weapons of Mass Destruction:

Totally Defiant
Dare Devil Trick
Dare Devil Pearl
Fire Road
Wrecker
Rising Star
Tropical Storm
Ice Storm

REFERENCES:

Celtic Kegler X4
edkpba/pba1992
 JDiesel
killpins
DEBBYIAC
rollingthunder
41dmb41 x8

 

LuckyLefty

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #106 on: November 28, 2012, 07:07:36 AM »
Kidlost2000,

I would like to thank you for your charts, analysis, video's etc on this topic.

You are measured and even and I appreciate that.  I've been very interested in the drilling on the Outburst and I was curious about what the assumptions were in creating the charts that showed the 1/2 inch difference in the pocket.  If different assumption are entered for this bowler.

ie rev rate, speed off hand or at the pocket, axis rotation, axis tilt for the bowler that went into creating that 1/2 inch difference when run on the blueprint software?

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS former Brunswick representatives when discussing the famous cg no maddeh video (which I have watched a bunch of times) for some reason have "forgotten" or choosen not to disclose those assumptions requested above.  What scientist disclosing objective data all of a sudden becomes so quiet when asked to disclose the assumptions behind their data.  Reason?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:26:16 AM by LuckyLefty »
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

kidlost2000

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #107 on: November 28, 2012, 07:30:00 AM »
I try. It is hard to tell on your previous post if your being sarcastic or not.

The bowler info can be entered manually or used the info they allow you to choose based on bowlers skill level. For all charts I used the bowlers specs given for a 220 average bowler.

Is there a specific thing you would like charted with the software to compare cg placement based on a bowlers style and the said results?

Additional info on ball studies can be found here
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Ridenour_Center_Of_Gravity


The picture shows the bowling info used on all charts posted along with what info is needed if trying to chart for a specific bowler or style.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

LuckyLefty

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #108 on: November 28, 2012, 09:04:45 AM »
Kidlost2000,

I think the above test is very significant and should be looked at by any of the CG no Maddeh advocates!  2 inches of difference?  Who wouldn't want 2 inches of extra recovery? 

Two things not provided or missed by me were the axis rotation and tilt of Harry the test bowler(machine) for this test.  The second was the board position in the pocket for each layout?  Are these both there?

I do note they were creating a slightly rev dominant bowler for this test.  Good we are the ones affected more by layout differences as documented by other charts you have provided.

http://www.blueprintbowling.com/Blog/Posts/blueprint-testing-by-earl-and-supercats.aspx


Regards,

Luckylefty
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 09:10:14 AM by LuckyLefty »
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

spmcgivern

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #109 on: November 28, 2012, 11:56:35 AM »
Lucky, also realize both balls in that study that produced 2-inches of recovery difference were illegal in the positive and negative weights.  Two bowling balls drilled "leally" would in theory produce less of a difference.

LuckyLefty

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #110 on: November 28, 2012, 03:36:39 PM »
SPM,

Those statements argue against CG no matter,,,don't they?

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

spmcgivern

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #111 on: November 28, 2012, 03:57:10 PM »
No one is saying it has zero effect.  They are saying the effects are not enough to base a balls success solely on whether or not the CG is in the palm or 1-inch to the right.  There are other factors which give the bowler more room to adjust reaction for what they are trying to achieve. 

I would be more worried if my abralon pad was used 2 times versus 4 times then where my CG is located.  But that is me.

kidlost2000

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #112 on: November 28, 2012, 05:12:31 PM »
At LLs request we have 3 different cg positions. The ball is the Outburst with 2.5 ozs of top weight. The Three CG locations are

2" positive from the bowlers center grip line(CGL)
On the bowlers CGL
2" negative from the bowlers CGL

The pin to cg distance for the first 2 bowling balls was 4.25" and for the negative ball 4.85". This was to keep the CG on the bowlers CGL from one side to the next with the exact same pin location for all three drillings. So you can literally draw a line across the bowlers CGL and all three balls will have the CG land on that spot.

The 3 layouts to achieve this for a bowler with the PAP of 5.5" straight across were

51 X 5.5" X 30
80 X 5.5" X 30
108 X 5.5" X 30

Below will fall the charts two at a time going in order listed. The first will show the bowling balls specs. The second will be the bowling ball charted on the lanes.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

kidlost2000

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #113 on: November 28, 2012, 05:14:01 PM »
ON CGL
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

kidlost2000

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #114 on: November 28, 2012, 05:14:38 PM »
2" neg graphs below.

Some of the End comparison results for all 3 CG placements

Pocket position (board#): Ball pos 17.80, ball neu 17.49, ball neg 16.77

Pocket entry angle: Ball pos 6.10, ball neu 6.06, ball neg 5.77

Total hook (boards):  Ball pos 28.81, ball neu 28.49, ball neg 27.77
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:02:24 PM by kidlost2000 »
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

LuckyLefty

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #115 on: November 29, 2012, 10:22:15 AM »
Kidlost2000,

I would like to thank you for your effort, time, and patience with me.

I note about an inch in difference in pocket position, a degree difference in attack angle.

In this link posted above I note 2 inches difference in pocket position right from the USBC's own test.  Or as the researcher stated about a 10% difference in ball reaction.
reposted link of USBC test..
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=Ridenour_Center_Of_Gravity.

When we own the pocket and are trying to carry, by moving left or right, up, tucking our pinkie finger etc.  How many of us wish for an extra 1/2 inch in the pocket or inch to kick that corner pin out!

According to the USBC test above it looks like CG adds up to almost 10% in their tests!  What competitive bowler is willing to give up 1% to his competitors!?

I guess then "CG Maddeh" that is why we have no tournament winners posting in my other post "Around the corner tournament winners".  This post is looking on Ballreviews (a worldwide site) out here that have won tournaments playing inside with the cg's in a negative position while playing deeper than the 4th arrow.  Not yet!

Do I think it is conceivable that someone could show up and post there?  Yes, but I maintain that it is only because the guy is 10% better than his competitors and or the lanes were scorched in the mids so bad the friction of the lane supplied the midlane, not the ball core!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It's conclusive!  Thanks guys!  CG DO MADDEH!
PS notice the poor rev dominant axis rotation strong bowler above, almost 28 boards of hook versus 14 boards of hook for the 30 degree axis rotation top pro player with less axis rotation and more speed!  Easier to control I'd bet.  But for the soft high axis rotation player I bet you it is exciting when it works!


It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Gunny

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #116 on: November 29, 2012, 12:31:11 PM »
I can wheel a ball with a negative cg placement deeper than 4th arrow!

Impending Doom

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #117 on: November 29, 2012, 12:38:04 PM »
I can wheel a ball with a negative cg placement deeper than 4th arrow!

That's cause you're a beast, bro.

Impending Doom

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #118 on: November 29, 2012, 12:39:15 PM »
Also, Lefty, nothing but mad respect for you, but are you losing your marbles?

Gunny

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #119 on: November 29, 2012, 12:41:33 PM »
Quote
That's cause you're a beast, bro.

actually, its because I've mastered the art of suitcasing the ball

Monster Pike

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Re: just a bit upset..
« Reply #120 on: November 29, 2012, 12:42:43 PM »
I can wheel a ball with a negative cg placement deeper than 4th arrow!

That's cause you're a beast, bro.

I think he's a ninja bowler... 

Gonna have to figure a layout for that Nuts Pearl...  Pin up or down... CG in palm or get it kicked out... Doh!!  Seriously though... Should be fun to see what that ball will do. 

Now back to your topic... & LL's questions er observations...  :P