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Author Topic: besides the over 50's.....  (Read 10002 times)

xrayjay

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besides the over 50's.....
« on: June 01, 2016, 01:17:38 AM »
who in the PBA tour are currently the modern day "lower" rev bowlers?

Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

aka addik since 2003

 

ICDeadMoney

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Re: besides the over 50's.....
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2016, 12:31:28 PM »
I guess we differ on skill.  Sure high tech cores have had an impact on the game, but give everyone pancake weight blocks and it would still be about creating revs.  Overall rev rates would decrease incrementally because of higher rg cores, but the guys with the most revs who can keep the ball in play would still dominate. 

As you change the motion from throwing straight, to throwing revs, you have to work harder to maintain the same level of accuracy.

Wouldn't you call someone who can achieve the same level of accuracy, while also achieving an increased angle of entry more skillful?


Quote from: avabob
 link=topic=311265.msg2555821#msg2555821 date=1465401280
I have an old xxxl polyester ball with a low rg 2 piece core.  I can rev it up more than a target zone, but it is just as helpless on a high volume of oil.  Want to compare it to a car?  My arm swing is the motor, the core is the transmission, and the shell is the tire.  Put me on glare ice ( heavy oil ) and the strength of the motor or the gear ratio of the transmission has no effect if the tires don't have studs. 

I sense that your definition of "rev it up" is quite different than mine.

When I was in my 20's, before they came out with short oil, my rev rate was 600+ with the goal of reducing the slippage as much as possible as the ball exit the oil.

I release the ball at about 16 mph so I was very close to the rolling rev rate right away.

Due to the hard surface of the ball (hard rubber, or plastic) the ball wouldn't hook early.

There was a practical limit as to how much force you could inflict onto the head pin while also obtaining an effective angle of entry.

To increase angle of entry, you had to reduce speed to allow the low friction ball time to build up cross lane momentum.

If you lower the speed, you lower the force applied to the head pin.

If you lower the cross lane momentum, you lower the force.

To get the most out of the shot, you had to balance speed and revolutions.

Good young bowlers today are way more skilled than bowlers 25 years ago.  Because they use different techniques to attack the environment does not diminish the skill level.   We get too pre occupied with score.  Critics go ballistic because guys in league average 230 just like the pros.  Well guess what. In 1975 I averaged as much in league as Mark Roth did on tour, and I wasn't high in my league.  It has always been that way.     

I don't think the "good young bowlers" today are "way more skilled".

With the modern balls (super high friction) creating cross lane momentum is much easier, and can be done at much higher speeds.

With longer oil patterns, it's much easier to get that cross lane momentum to occur down by the pins.

With flaring ball peeling oil off the lane, the bowlers can cause areas of the lane that were intended to have oil on them to become dry, and act like a bumper for errant shots.

On a THS, the bowlers don't need to create the bumper, the lane man does it for them.

So no, I don't see the young bowlers being more skillful.

If anything, they are stronger because the current game rewards an increase in ball speed, even at the expense of accuracy.


When they take a 40' pattern, and cut it back to 35', most of these "skilled" bowlers have trouble keeping the ball on line.

I guess that indicates that keeping the ball on line isn't something they are more skillful at.

An oil pattern should magnify everyone's weakness, not mask them.

That ways the guy with the fewest weakness tends to score the highest.

cheech

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Re: besides the over 50's.....
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2016, 12:40:22 PM »
High tech weight  blocks have had minimal if any impact on the evolution of the high rev power game.  If you want to hurt power players go to tame surfaces and use long oil.

in general long oil INCREASES scoring for high rev power players and REQUIRES less surface. most long patterns use less volume so more aggressive covers and surfaces make the ball hook and puke downlane. bowlers need to get it out of their head that LONG oil is required for lower scores when they mean to say more VOLUME is required for lower scores

avabob

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Re: besides the over 50's.....
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2016, 07:34:41 PM »
High rev players score better on long oil because the balls themselves blow up the patterns so quickly with their aggressive surfaces and high rev rates.  The cranker game came to prominence with the advent of short oil patterns and the trend to stripping the back ends as a means to combat carrydown in the 80's. 

I am not talking about Joe Sixpack tearing the cover off the ball in the Thursday night commercial league, but the elite level of amatuers and pros.  They are creating a great amount of revs with much lower axis rotations than in the past.  See Sean Rash as an example.  The point is that high revs and high speed have been combined to allow top players to not have to go coast to coast.  The straighter you can throw the ball without reducing the rev rate the better you can play flatter patterns without sacrificing carry. 

Bottom line high rev players will dominate the game so long as there is enough friction out their to allow them to throw hard and still get strong recovery. 

avabob

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Re: besides the over 50's.....
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2016, 07:44:41 PM »
IC:  I should have read your post more closely.  I don't disagree with what you say at all.  I think what you are saying is that raw power with accuracy can succeed today where you and I needed more finesse to maximize carry in the rubber ball era.  My argument is that the guys today are doing what they have to do in the environment they are given, and they are doing it at a higher level of athleticism than you and I did. 

I would like to see the friction cut back simply to see if the guys today can finesse the ball more.  I think they can, but I could be wrong.  I do note that when the Badger pattern first came out it was the straighter guys like Duke who were successful, along with O Neil who certainly has plenty of hand, but can really stroke the ball.

Also, my biggest beef with the balls of today is not the high scores per se, but the way they allow bowlers to blow up a patterns so quickly.  That characteristic destroys the ability to have longer formats which tends to bring out the best in players when they can transitions more slowly over more games.   
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 10:32:40 AM by avabob »