BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Zanatos1914 on August 20, 2013, 05:24:26 PM
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I want to know is there a rule on lanes not being sanction or legal...
This past week I promise whoever ran the lanes screwed them up... The lane had no friction on the outside and nothing in the back... I understand the concept of making friction but my team doesnt understand that concept... The lanes did give some halfway through the 2 game but I was already pissed... Later on I found out the dude who ran the lane wasted oil in the back and attempting to mop it up.. WTH.. I have seen more friction on NABI than last week...
You might say I am complaining and that might be true but is there on rule on this type of stuff - YES IT WAS AMF and it was position round....
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Did the team that you were bowling against bowl on the same lanes? If so, it's real simple: shoe up, shut up, and bowl. The cream ultimately rises to the top.
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There are illegal conditions but all of your scores will still count.
The center may get a warning.
So to answer your question there is nothing that can be done about it. If you shot a 900 series or 400 series it still counts.
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And just how were they illegal?
The rule is simply you must apply 3 units of oil minimum.
The fact there was more than amount applied doesn't make the lanes illegal.
You may have felt the lanes were too tough or favored a certain style but that doesn't make them illegal.
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And just how were they illegal?
The rule is simply you must apply 3 units of oil minimum.
The fact there was more than amount applied doesn't make the lanes illegal.
You may have felt the lanes were too tough or favored a certain style but that doesn't make them illegal.
I think what he's asking specifically is whether it's a legal condition to just have lane conditioner mopped in random places by a lazy employee who rather than strip and re-run, just decided to take a mop and move the oil around.
I don't know the answer, but as others have said, there's probably nothing that can be done about it.
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Illegal? As long as it had a minimum of 3 units of oil it wasn't illegal. If they have a lane machine that strips and oils, it doesn't take but a few minutes to do a lane! I don't understand how he can spill oil on the back if the lanes are done by machine! Both teams had to bowl on the same condition, so it wasn't illegal! It sounds like the other team won and that's what the post is truly about! If you're team would have won, then we probably wouldn't have an issue! Sorry about your night, but there's nothing that you or anybody else can do! Before we got our new lane machine, our old wick machine messed up and oiled gutter to gutter and it was tough! We adjusted and a couple of us moved deeper and didn't hook the ball and shot really good! Of course everybody else complained to the owner, but he said the same thing! Everybody had to bowl on the same condition and some adjusted and some didn't move and complained! Just my $.02, Bruce
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halfway through the 2 game but I was already pissed... Later on I found out the dude who ran the lane wasted oil in the back and attempting to mop it up.. WTH..
What exactly does that mean? He spilled oil on the floor in the back room, moped it up, and put it into the machine? If so, I doubt the machine would work properly for a very long time until it is thoroughly cleaned. Also, what type of machine is it? Guessing an HVO Summit or something along those lines of a wick machine, seeing as it's an AMF Center... And there is no way in most modern machines to "waste oil in the back" (guessing that is back end of the lane not workshop) unless the program was modified prior to bowling.. Which from my experience is a very bad idea to modify the pattern frequently.. However, I can see some tweaking in the early season sometimes being in order.
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BatBowler is correct on this. As long as the pattern had 3 units of oil then it is good to go. Whether they hand oiled all the way to the pins or the lane machine messed up and did not strip correctly. Whatever the case is, a pattern is out there and both teams had to bowl on the same shot. Yes it may suck not being able to throw strikes at will. Make your spares and I am sure you will come out on top. Learn to adjust to what you are bowling on.
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Learn to adjust to what you are bowling on.
This. It's really that simple, make an adjustment. Don't cry because you can't swing the lane like you can on normal AMF house shots.
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Thanks for the responses...
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I think the phrase "learn to adjust" is the most overused and arrogant term used on this board. Fact is, poster is frustrated to have bowled on something very different from the norm on a position round night.
Even if the pattern didn't have the minimum 3 units, the USBC has no real power to punish the offending house especially once that sanction sticker is on the front door.
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I think the phrase "learn to adjust" is the most overused and arrogant term used on this board. Fact is, poster is frustrated to have bowled on something very different from the norm on a position round night.
Even if the pattern didn't have the minimum 3 units, the USBC has no real power to punish the offending house especially once that sanction sticker is on the front door.
He may be frustrated, but the fact remains that the other team had to bowl on the exact same condition and evidently they wonn. Didn't seem to be a problem for them, so what's to gripe about really? There's nothing you can do about the shot, the only way I could see it being truly "unfair" is if the rest of the league was bowling on the regular league shot and only the OP's pair was affected, which could then be grounds for a protest or whatever procedure USBC or the league has in place for such a situation, because really, in a position round, they could have conceivably been jumped by a lower team or teams because their pair was unfairly different from the rest of the league.
Good luck proving it though.
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Bottom line, probably reasonable to be upset, but nothing illegal.
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Bowled a Sr regional a few years back. New house. Guy started on lane 1 stripping and oiling. Didn't realize the machine ran out of oil on lane 15 (16 lane house). Nothing like using a heavy oil ball on one lane and plastic on the other. Consensus of most of us bowlers was great shot, added a different twist to the competition. Winner was the guy that could hit the last pair.
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The other team was using plastic or house balls... Plus getting 170 pins
We all know house balls or plastic dont break period unless the lane is really dry and that wasnt the case.. I am use to bowling on lanes that have friction and I searched the entire lane - Nothing... I should have just bowled up the middle and prayed -- Could have developed a line for later on in the game... Didnt think of throwing the ball up the middle and praying instead of looking for reaction....
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When someone extols the virtues of the USBC and them establishing and maintaining rules and everything else, nobody really understands that they just write stuff down and close their eyes and turn their backs. The minimum 3 units is just so they can say they have a rule, because owners will put down a reasonable amount of oil anyway to protect their surface. And even their lane certification requirements are a joke because all they really require is that you check boxes stating whether or not the centers meet the requirements, they don't require actual proof of lanes or oil patterns meeting specifications. This is also one of the problems of house shots and handicap. The handicap is inflated to match the inflated scores, and if you run into a problem like this, a 230 average guy won't average 230 or anything close to it, but the 180 average bowler isn't consistent enough to notice that big of a difference. Just not a fun situation all the way around.
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Truth is that the lane certification is totally different from what it use to be! I remember back in the day of taking all the pins out and weighing them. Measuring the flat gutters for the proper depth and inspecting the lanes. It use to be an ordeal to get certified. If somebody shot an honor score we use to run tapes and send them to get checked. A lot use to go into getting the lanes ready for the season and that's when it was ABC! Oh, we paid less in sanction fees back them and had more work involved! Did we get better with USBC? Oh and Zanatos, I do understand your problem and frustration, cause that's my problems with a lot of centers is not know what to expect with conditions! Just my $.02, Bruce
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Condition bowler gets upset when his favorite condition isn't there. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
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Just an aside, but the 3 unit rule, adopted in about 1989 wasn't a bad standard prior to the introduction of the resin ball. The resins increase the friction factor at much lower oil volume levels than is the case with non resin urethane balls. The 3 unit standard should have been changed to something like a 5-1 ratio rule but it didn't happen until the sport patterns came out with their 2-1 ratios.
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Quote from LGD: funny stuff here!!!
Condition bowler gets upset when his favorite condition isn't there. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
+1
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What batbowler said, is spot on.
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Truth is that the lane certification is totally different from what it use to be! I remember back in the day of taking all the pins out and weighing them. Measuring the flat gutters for the proper depth and inspecting the lanes. It use to be an ordeal to get certified. If somebody shot an honor score we use to run tapes and send them to get checked. A lot use to go into getting the lanes ready for the season and that's when it was ABC! Oh, we paid less in sanction fees back them and had more work involved! Did we get better with USBC? Oh and Zanatos, I do understand your problem and frustration, cause that's my problems with a lot of centers is not know what to expect with conditions! Just my $.02, Bruce
After I bowled my only 300 game in the summer of 1972 the center manager said he was going to go to the back and weigh the pins so he could replace any that were out of the weight spec before the association secretary got there to check them. I never did ask if he had to replace any. -- JohnP
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Truth is that the lane certification is totally different from what it use to be! I remember back in the day of taking all the pins out and weighing them. Measuring the flat gutters for the proper depth and inspecting the lanes. It use to be an ordeal to get certified. If somebody shot an honor score we use to run tapes and send them to get checked. A lot use to go into getting the lanes ready for the season and that's when it was ABC! Oh, we paid less in sanction fees back them and had more work involved! Did we get better with USBC? Oh and Zanatos, I do understand your problem and frustration, cause that's my problems with a lot of centers is not know what to expect with conditions! Just my $.02, Bruce
They still do the inspections at every center. Pins, Flat Gutters, Pin Deck, Lane(Foul line - Pin Deck). This is done by the local association which falls under the big umbrella of USBC. To me the pattern should have been fun and a challenge to figure out how to knock down 10 pins. Spare shooting now a days is terrible compared to the past. We all expect strikes and when we don't... the finger and blame game comes out.
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I want to know is there a rule on lanes not being sanction or legal...
This past week I promise whoever ran the lanes screwed them up... The lane had no friction on the outside and nothing in the back... I understand the concept of making friction but my team doesnt understand that concept... The lanes did give some halfway through the 2 game but I was already pissed... Later on I found out the dude who ran the lane wasted oil in the back and attempting to mop it up.. WTH.. I have seen more friction on NABI than last week...
You might say I am complaining and that might be true but is there on rule on this type of stuff - YES IT WAS AMF and it was position round....
This is a good question, as I only had 1 time in my 36 years of bowling where something similar happened.
In my situation, the lanes were stripped the night before, and oil was put out for the morning/midday senior leagues. All lanes afterwards were stripped again, but in the case of the pair I was on, the mechanic skipped our pair to accommodate lanes for a league that had a start time 30 minutes ahead of my league. He then went back to the pair right of ours, and missed ours completely that night.
I had spoken up about it to both the league secretary and president, which the latter was on my team. We then called out the manager of the alley about it, who insisted that he saw the mechanic oil them, but the mechanic owned up to it and said that he missed it and apologized.
Our problem was that while we were figuring this out, the opposing team's first two bowlers had completed their first frame. There was a rule in the books (I remember it being a USBC rule, but I'm having trouble finding it) stating that you can not alter the conditions of the lane once match/league play had started. Those first 2 bowlers entered league play, so we were stuck.
All the manager could do for us was refund the lineage fee for that night. It sucked more for me because I was 4 pins out from securing the last spot in that alley's AMF Pins Over Average tournament. The guy ahead of me didn't bowl that week, and that was the only league I had at that house. So I missed out on the finals thanks to the mechanic's screw up.
My point: I didn't complain about the lanes being run and were screwed up; my complaint was that my pair wasn't run at all. I adjusted as much as I could.. in fact, I was high man on that pair, at 573. Anchor bowler on the opposite team carried a 235 average at the time, and he didn't break 550. But definitely know your rules, use them when you need to, and most of all...
Bring equipment that you can use on ANY condition. The only reason I was at 573 and high man was because I brought my old Blue Hammer with me, even though I was still inside 20 at the arrows with it. If I had the time to run home and bring my Blue Pearl Hammer with me, I would have shot 650+ and had a shot at the tournament.
I have to agree with LGD, but I'll a step further. It's amazing how many people complain when their favuorite condition isn't there, but it's even more amazing how they only want their favourite condition with their favourite new, modern ball.
Like with New Recipe Coke; sometimes newer =/= better, or better suited to the condition.
BL.