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Author Topic: Layout Confusion / in need of help  (Read 913 times)

n00dlejester

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Layout Confusion / in need of help
« on: August 05, 2008, 11:49:08 PM »
Alright, so here's the skinny:  I'm having trouble with a few layouts.  My coach has gotten me to switch from 5 to 4 steps, has improved my mechanics and freed up my arm swing a lot.  Doing this has created more ball speed and a more direct line to the pocket than I was playing...which I like a lot.  I had a few balls drilled 6 inches pin to PAP, and I had to get one of them plugged due to how erratic their reactions were.  My Neptune would either go straight as an arrow or turn on a left blinker and kill the guy on the lane to my left.  I'm getting it plugged and drilled with a bit less backend (okay, a lot less backend).  

I've also been a huge fan of my pin under balls.  They're a lot easier to control, and a lot easier for me to understand.  I know when they work so much easier than my pin-up stuff.  Would it be "wrong" to drill everything pin under?  I was thinking of redoing my Neptune with a pin on or near axis drilling, and I want to plug my Storm T-Road Pearl and drill it to roll sooner...I was thinking 4.5 - 5 pin to PAP, on the midline or a tad above it.  

Thoughts?  

I'm a right-handed stroker, I don't know my rev rate but if I had to guess it's between 250-275, 15-17 MPH is my more comfy areas, I have a very forward roll so I think that means lower axis tilt.  That is all the stats I know of myself.
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Layout Confusion / in need of help
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2008, 08:00:30 AM »
Are you still trying to use the same surface preps you used before you made some changes to your game?  Since your ball speed is up, you may be able to use less polish and more surface in general, and this will give you a more consistent read on the lanes.  Also, is your 6" stuff all pin-up, or is some of it pin-down?

And personally, I'd have a mix of pin-up and pin-down equipment.  The key is to know when to use them.  My pin-up gear gets used when I need to create entry angle and when I need to get the ball down the lane.  My pin-down gear gets used when I need a smoother reaction, when I need more control, and when carrydown makes it harder for a pin-up ball to find friction to react.
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n00dlejester

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Re: Layout Confusion / in need of help
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 08:11:32 AM »
I've tried a few different surface preps.  With polish, these things get schizo on the backend.  Way too sensitive to anything it seems.  I have a Pyro that is pin-up, 4.5 inches pin to PAP, and that ball is very consistent actually.  

What does a pin on the VAL do to a reaction?
What does a pin PAST the VAL do?

I agree with your pin-up/pin-down gear.  I think reaction shapes are a necessity.  I need to have a few of them in there.  I just think the 6 inches is way too much for me.
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janderson

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Re: Layout Confusion / in need of help
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 08:56:57 AM »
Pin to PAP distance is the important measure as it determines how much the ball will flare and the effective rG of the ball. Are you sure you mean VAL (Vertical Axis line)?

Pin up/Pin down means nothing if you're not actually drilling into the core and changing the core dynamics.

If you are more of an up-the-back style bowler with low tilt, surface is going to play into your ball reaction much more than layouts.

It isn't wrong to drill all of your equipment the same way and work with surface preparation and cover stocks.
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n00dlejester

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Re: Layout Confusion / in need of help
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2008, 11:44:50 AM »
I was just tossing around the idea of having a ball say 1 or 2 inches pin to PAP, on my VAL.  I know that pin above bridge usually means more backend, pin below means more midlane.  I was just wondering where a pin somewehre else would do.  Like, pin 3 inches to PAP but to the right of the PAP (on a right handed drill).

And all of my gear has drilled into the core, I usually get the fingers and thumb drilled a little deeper to eliminate a weight hole.  I'd rather have the ability to give my ball a x-hole if needed.


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Dan Belcher

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Re: Layout Confusion / in need of help
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2008, 12:49:45 PM »
quote:
I was just wondering where a pin somewehre else would do.  Like, pin 3 inches to PAP but to the right of the PAP (on a right handed drill).
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a no-no since it would cause reverse flare?

Don't overthink your layout choices.  Using too short of a pin-to-PAP will get you control but at the expense of entry angle and pin action.  Using too long of a pin-to-PAP will make the ball transition too late and not flare enough.  Just find your comfort zone and stick to it.
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slashrr69

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Re: Layout Confusion / in need of help
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2008, 01:44:46 PM »
hello
   Iam a firm believer that you stay with a layout that lets you win(bowl well).. one that you are comfortable with.. if you like layouts that are pin down, you stay with that.. to me you only drill a pin up ball if you really really need it and then you put it in a ball that you like that is in your arsenal already, giving you 2 of the same balls but 2 different looking rolls and reactions.. I also believe that if you are looking for a little more length and want to still use the pin down layout, you need to start playing with the covers/surfaces on your balls.. this will give you length and more backend(depending on what ball you do it too).. just because you change the cover/surface on a bowling ball doesn't always mean you have to put a liquid polish on it.. just an example if you take a ball to 1000,2000,4000 using a abby pad with water it will shine all by itself... throw the ball and if you need more length, thats when you put a liquid polish on it(not alot to start ,you can always add more).. there are my thoughts, hope they help you...            slashrr69
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