Author Topic: What is your real pap? (Read 3587 times)

newbie101 · « **on:** April 06, 2010, 01:05:12 PM »

My pap when measured with a plastic ball is 4 3/8, but with a regular ball, it measures 3 5/8, 7/8 up. Can someone please tell me what is my real pap? which should I use when laying out a ball. I am very confused.

thanks for the help.

mj79 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2010, 09:32:17 PM »

sounds like you have 2 different releases .. Mine is 3 3/4 right 3/4 up on both of mine..
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Graaille · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2010, 09:57:00 PM »

There is some truth to what MJ79 said. Some people, even though they have plastic laid out exactly the same as their reactive balls, just release plastic differently.

That being said, if you measure your PAP on two different strength reactive balls - you can get a different reading on your PAP due to the flare of the core. One thing I've heard some pro's say is if you're wanting to drill up a new ball, take a PAP measurement off of a similar strength ball (if you have one)simply because of the potential PAP difference.

the pooh · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:00:00 PM »

The measurement off your plastic ball is correct. The pap is more accurately called the INITIAL positive axis point. It is what happens off your hand. The different cores in high performance balls pull the track(and the pap) down almost immediately. In other words, all balls leave your hand with the same initial starting pap. Because they flare so quickly, it is difficult to see the initial pap on a performance ball it happens so fast. It has even been stated that a ball can begin to flare in the air before it hits the lane! Depending on many variables,(rg, differential, intermediate differential,and even shape and density of the core) each ball has it's own flare characteristics. Lay all your balls out using the pap you found off your pancake cored plastic ball. Hopefully, you taped the pap and watched it all the way down the lane, that is much more accurate than looking at the track.

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the pooh

mj79 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:08:42 PM »

I have heard from a few pros who are mixed on using a plastic vs strike ball for finding PAP.. I myself use a plastic..

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Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone
Brunswick Danger Zone Black Ice

16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev

Work in progress

newbie101 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:13:56 PM »

Sorry I did not mention what kind of balls were used:

Plastic ball: Starburst xxxl by lane 1: pin middle of the palm.

Reactive ball: Virtual Gravity: pin over the bridge, MB kickout 45 deg.

Come think about what graille said..I do release my plastic differently that my regular balls...So should I use my plastic or reactive.?

Edited on 4/6/2010 10:21 PM

Edited on 4/6/2010 10:25 PM

Edited on 4/6/2010 11:01 PM

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:18:50 PM »

quote:
The measurement off your plastic ball is correct. The pap is more accurately called the INITIAL positive axis point. It is what happens off your hand. The different cores in high performance balls pull the track(and the pap) down almost immediately. In other words, all balls leave your hand with the same initial starting pap. Because they flare so quickly, it is difficult to see the initial pap on a performance ball it happens so fast. It has even been stated that a ball can begin to flare in the air before it hits the lane! Depending on many variables,(rg, differential, intermediate differential,and even shape and density of the core) each ball has it''s own flare characteristics. Lay all your balls out using the pap you found off your pancake cored plastic ball. Hopefully, you taped the pap and watched it all the way down the lane, that is much more accurate than looking at the track.

Pooh, what about a case like mine in that my plastic ball has a long span with a lot of reverse in both fingers and thumb vs my reactive balls that have a shorter span with less reverse pitch in fingers and thumb? Due to the huge difference in my grip of these 2 different balls, my release isn''t the same on both nor can I release them the same when I try. If I go by the oil rings on my plastic ball, it would appear my PAP is over 5" x 1/2 up and on my reactive balls, it would appear my PAP is only 3 3/4" to 4" x 1/4 up.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

Edited on 4/6/2010 10:21 PM

cisco1869 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:50:42 PM »

quote:

Come think about what graille said..I do release my palstic differently that my regular balls...So should I use my plastice or reactive.?

Edited on 4/6/2010 10:21 PM

Edited on 4/6/2010 10:25 PM

You want to use your plastic ball but with the same release you would use for your normal strike ball release.

newbie101 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 06, 2010, 10:59:07 PM »

quote:
quote:

Come think about what graille said..I do release my palstic differently that my regular balls...So should I use my plastice or reactive.?

Edited on 4/6/2010 10:21 PM

Edited on 4/6/2010 10:25 PM

You want to use your plastic ball but with the same release you would use for your normal strike ball release.

I will try to use my plastic ball and realease it like I do with my regular ball and remeasure. thanks.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #9 on:** April 07, 2010, 05:03:43 AM »

Another attempt would be to use a piece of tape on your strike ball - starting either from your strike or spare ball PAP. Place the tape make a shot, and watch how it rotates in the front part of the lane. It should remain "stable" in one position for some time and then migrate away from the PAP through flare of the core. Adjust the tape if it is not stable in the head area, until you have a stable PAP measure - that should be it.

PAP on the spare ball/shot can differ a lot. If you use the spare ball for PAP measures, make sure you release just the way as your strike shot, otherwise you won't have a good reference for new drillings of your strike ball.
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icewall · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2010, 07:20:38 AM »

this is an interesting topic.

I go off my reactive equipment as I clip my thumb and track really high on my plastic ball which is drilled with the same specs as my strike ball(s).

plus, if that was really my PAP I would have trouble getting the ball to have any length ( I know as I have two friends that track really high and they can get anything to hook because of this). besides its probably about 3/4" difference anyway... no big deal.

themagician · « **Reply #11 on:** April 07, 2010, 07:43:27 AM »

A bowling ball can flare in the air so if you loft it you can very well see a change between a ball that flares a lot versus one that doesn't.

My track always comes out a little higher and not quite as high on the up coordinate on my plastic versus my flaring equipment, not a huge difference but enough to note.
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Author Topic: What is your real pap? (Read 3587 times)

newbie101

What is your real pap?

mj79

Re: What is your real pap?

Graaille

Re: What is your real pap?

the pooh

Re: What is your real pap?

mj79

Re: What is your real pap?

newbie101

Re: What is your real pap?

Brickguy221

Re: What is your real pap?

cisco1869

Re: What is your real pap?

newbie101

Re: What is your real pap?

dizzyfugu

Re: What is your real pap?

icewall

Re: What is your real pap?

themagician

Re: What is your real pap?