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Author Topic: Learning layouts  (Read 2685 times)

lilpossum1

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Learning layouts
« on: March 31, 2018, 01:23:16 PM »
I learned the dual angle (well mostly learned lol,) and I have a  few questions.

1. Dealing with a symmetrical bowling ball, 3 3/8 is Max flare. I get that. I also get that going above or below that decreases flare. My question is that does going longer or shorter change anything in relation to going the opposite direction? Like does going 2" do the exact same thing as going, say, 5"? I see a lot of people going longer rather than going shorter in layout videos.

2. Track is known for labeling the M.B. on balls that other companies would still consider symmetrical. Are these balls treated as a symmetrical ball since the intermediate diff is so low, or are they treated as asymmetrical?

3. Can anyone post a link to a good video or write up on balance hole locations? If it makes a difference, I am just worried about symmetrical balls for right now.

I am learning this mostly for my own curiosity. Better to know than to not know.
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2018, 01:45:26 PM »
If it helps:

AFFECT OF PIN PLACEMENT (Symmetrical core)
Pin to PAP distance: (PAP=Positive Axis Point)
  • 0" - minimum flare potential, core is in its most stable position, earliest roll with smoothest arc.
  • 1 1/8" - 1/3 of flare potential, stable core position, earlier roll with smooth arc.
  • 2 1/4" - 2/3 of flare potential, semi stable core position, early roll with strong arc.
  • 3 3/8" - max flare potential, most unstable core position, medium length with the most hook potential.
  • 4 1/2" - 2/3 of flare potential, semi stable core position, late roll with flip/arc reaction.
  • 5 5/8" - 1/3 of flare potential, stable core position, later roll with a flip reaction.
  • 6 3/4" - minimum flare potential, stable core position, latest roll with strongest flip.

Remember : These reaction characteristics are all relative to the conditions they are being used on and may not perform as expected due to burning up too early or not setting up early enough.

Pin to grip center (GC) distance: The higher the pin above grip center the more length you will get for given pin to PAP distance. The placement in relation to GC also affects where the tracks of track flare intersect (bow tie). Higher pin = Higher intersection. For this reason they suggest high trackers place the pin higher above GC to reduce the risk of flaring over the finger holes.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 01:48:24 PM by Aloarjr810 »
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lilpossum1

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2018, 02:40:39 PM »
I'm going to get my OG Forza and Primal Rage redrilled for my left hand, and I want them to compliment each other. The Forza for playing straight up the lanes, and the Rage for when I have to move right and really get the ball to come up. Sometimes in this house, the heads can be chewed up, even on the left side, for unknown reasons.

My thoughts on the layouts are:
Forza
65X5.5X60
Possibly some slight polish or higher grit
Reason: easier length with a backend reaction that isn't jumpy.

Rage
30X3.5x40
Probably 2000 grit
Reason: I need something with some teeth to read through the oil some nights. Hopefully the surface will allow the ball to read, and the earlier and more angular layout coupled with high flare will allow the ball to come off the spot hard enough when I need to generate some angle. This is the one I am concerned with going horribly wrong.
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2018, 09:43:32 AM »
Depending on your PAP, 30x3.5x40 will most likely need a balance hole - choose wisely.
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lilpossum1

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2018, 10:58:27 AM »
Don't know my pap yet. Going to find it later. Plan on drilling them before league
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lilpossum1

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2018, 11:16:13 AM »
Ok doing a lot of reading on this. Since the drill angle on a symmetrical appears to be nearly pointless, would it be advisable to raise that angle quite a bit to try to get away from needing a weight hole? Or what is your reasoning behind it probably needing a weight hole?
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2018, 12:10:52 PM »
Definitely not pointless.  A smaller drill angle on a symmetrical ball will allow you to use a balance hole if desired.  Depending on where it's located, a balance hole can decrease performance, have no effect on performance, or increase performance. 

Personally, I almost always swing the CG out and fine tune with a balance hole on symmetrical balls.
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lilpossum1

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2018, 12:37:47 PM »
So should I potentially lower my drill angle on the Forza and fine tune with a balance hole? Also, I'm not sure how much the guy drilling my equipment knows about hole placement to fine tune reaction. He is just getting started
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Impending Doom

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 01:48:38 PM »
If you're looking to fine tune with a hole, put the CG @ 3/4 side. That way, you have 1-1/2 oz of side to work with, allowing you to make the hole bigger if needed. I had a Threat that without a hole was too much off of the spot, but I took out 1.5 oz with a medium large hole, and it worked perfectly.
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lilpossum1

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 03:08:54 PM »
Put the cg at 3/4 side? 3/4 side confuses me a bit. What does that mean?
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Impending Doom

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2018, 03:53:52 PM »
You will need a scale, but you will need to weigh out 3/4 oz of side weight for you to have some room to keep it legal. When you use the drill angle, that's not going to.tell you if you will need a hole. If you have a high top weight, you won't have to move the CG much to get the side weight to a place where you can use an extra hole. Conversely, if you have a low top weight, you can use whatever drill angle.you want and still not need an extra hole.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2018, 04:31:03 PM »
Lil,

Why switching to lefty again?

Regards,

Luckylefty
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lilpossum1

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Re: Learning layouts
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2018, 04:56:45 PM »
Self diagnosed soft tissue injury to my left hip. Even just sitting with my leg in the wrong position causes it to ache. The stress of sliding on my left leg becomes unbearable. I probably should see a doctor, but im waiting to see if it clears up with rest. Also, there is something about howling left hand that feels more natural for some reason
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